Author Topic: Infinite loop issue? (Read 6444 times)

Lamborghini_diablo · « **on:** July 14, 2010, 08:48:24 PM »

Ok, heres the situation:

Say I have a copy of Michael in my territory and chamber of angels set aside. I have a copy of Michael in my hand, and an opponent discards it with an ability. What happens?

Michael would go to be discarded by the opponent, but chamber of angels would stop him from being discarded, and shove him back into my territory. That means I now have two copies of Michael in play, and one must be discarded. However, each time I go to discard him by game rule, chamber of angels would bring it back into play.

Is there any way to stop this infinite loop?

Chamber of Angels: Set this fortress aside. If holder’s angel is being discarded, place it here instead. After two turns, return Hero to the top of your draw pile.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #1 on:** July 14, 2010, 08:56:27 PM »

I would just say they both go to Chamber.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #2 on:** July 14, 2010, 08:58:44 PM »

From the REG:

No player may control duplicates of a unique character or cause them to fight each other. This includes unique characters in play, in battle, in a side battle, face down, or in a set-aside area.

They cant both be under my control at the same time. One of them must be discarded, but chamber doesn't let them.

Isildur · « **Reply #3 on:** July 14, 2010, 09:00:32 PM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on July 14, 2010, 08:56:27 PM

I would just say they both go to Chamber.

they cant

Also this same loop applies to Pottersfield lol

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #4 on:** July 14, 2010, 09:05:22 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on July 14, 2010, 08:58:44 PM

They cant both be under my control at the same time. One of them must be discarded, but chamber doesn't let them.

Well then maybe you should remind Chamber that the rules say it can't do that.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #5 on:** July 14, 2010, 09:06:21 PM »

Just for reference:

Potters Field: Set this site aside. Holder's Heroes to be discarded are instead placed in this site, Treat them as discarded Heroes.

And to make this thread even MORE confusing: If I have both Potters Field and Chamber of Angels out... which one gets a discarded angel? The angel could end up in either.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #6 on:** July 14, 2010, 09:08:56 PM »

Whichever one activates first

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #7 on:** July 14, 2010, 09:09:39 PM »

Wait a minute. Discarding a card from hand is not the same as discarding an angel.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #8 on:** July 14, 2010, 09:10:45 PM »

Since when? I am Holy + 3 Angels + Chamber has always been a common combo.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #9 on:** July 14, 2010, 09:11:17 PM »

Well, what if I play both at the exact same time!

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on July 14, 2010, 09:09:39 PM

Wait a minute. Discarding a card from hand is not the same as discarding an angel.

It is if that card is an angel.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #10 on:** July 14, 2010, 09:17:06 PM »

Quote from: Master Q on July 14, 2010, 09:15:53 PM

Maybe I'm just confused, but Chamber of Angels is Set-Aside... right? So the Michael being discarded would not be in play, he would be in the Set-Aside area. How is this creating a situation where they are both in play at once?

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on July 14, 2010, 08:58:44 PM

From the REG:

No player may control duplicates of a unique character or cause them to fight each other. This includes unique characters in play, in battle, in a side battle, face down, or in a set-aside area.

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #11 on:** July 14, 2010, 09:36:17 PM »

I always thought Micheal (or any unique angel) would just be discarded because you can't put it in Chamber so he just goes to the discard pile. Even though chamber of angels isn't an optional ability I would still think that is how it should be ruled.

BlazerCC · « **Reply #12 on:** July 14, 2010, 09:39:43 PM »

Im with ChristianSoldier, One Micheal should be sent to the Discard Regardless of protection ablities.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #13 on:** July 14, 2010, 09:39:58 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on July 14, 2010, 09:10:45 PM

Since when? I am Holy + 3 Angels + Chamber has always been a common combo.

I just learned something that I did not know. The REG supports what you are saying.

Now I know!

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #14 on:** July 14, 2010, 09:46:40 PM »

Quote from: BlazerCC on July 14, 2010, 09:39:43 PM

Im with ChristianSoldier, One Micheal should be sent to the Discard Regardless of protection ablities.

it's not about protection, it's about redirecting the card to Chambers instead of the discard pile.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #15 on:** July 14, 2010, 09:54:46 PM »

We're still talking about a special ability, though. The general rule is that you can not force something that is not allowed. Your card's SA may say "band a hero into battle," but if it is a duplicate then you cannot. Likewise, Chamber may want to keep both Michaels, but it simply cannot.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #16 on:** July 14, 2010, 10:03:07 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on July 14, 2010, 09:54:46 PM

We're still talking about a special ability, though. The general rule is that you can not force something that is not allowed. Your card's SA may say "band a hero into battle," but if it is a duplicate then you cannot. Likewise, Chamber may want to keep both Michaels, but it simply cannot.

I agree with this. If a card said "All purple heroes in must join the battle" and I played it on my ET, I couldn't band my opponent's ET into battle because of the no duplicates in battle rule. I view this similarly. The only conclusion I can see is one Michael goes to the discard pile in spite of Chamber.

EDIT: I just saw that YMT included a banding example in his post too...I missed that the first time around. Anyway, I believe YMT is correct in ruling and reasoning.

melike1hit · « **Reply #17 on:** July 14, 2010, 10:14:41 PM »

ok noob here so i dont understand the problem here, cause my question is, is this a made up question? cause i thought u cant have 2 of the same card in 1 deck meaning u cant have 2 michels which would solve the problem

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #18 on:** July 14, 2010, 10:43:02 PM »

My Type 2 Deck has 2 Michaels and 2 Strong Angels

You are right about Type 1 but we have Type 2 for multiples

melike1hit · « **Reply #19 on:** July 14, 2010, 10:47:32 PM »

is thet the differense in types the fact that u can have 2 of one card?

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #20 on:** July 14, 2010, 11:14:06 PM »

In Type 1, you can have duplicates of some cards if your deck is large enough.

Forts, Arts, Lost Souls, and Single brigade cards with special abilities are done on a 1 per 50 basis. Meaning, if your deck is 50-99 cards, you can only have 1 of the listed cards per deck. However, 100-149 allows you to have two copies of those cards.

TheJaylor · « **Reply #21 on:** July 15, 2010, 06:59:45 PM »

and T2 you can have 5 of any Character or Enhancement which is one reason it's better than T1.

Cousin It · « **Reply #22 on:** July 16, 2010, 11:25:18 AM »

Quote from: KoalaKingofFortressAlstad on July 15, 2010, 06:59:45 PM

and T2 you can have 5 of any Character or Enhancement which is one reason it's better than T1.

XD This made me laugh so hard!

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 16, 2010, 12:13:56 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on July 14, 2010, 10:03:07 PM

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on July 14, 2010, 09:54:46 PM
We're still talking about a special ability, though. The general rule is that you can not force something that is not allowed. Your card's SA may say "band a hero into battle," but if it is a duplicate then you cannot. Likewise, Chamber may want to keep both Michaels, but it simply cannot.

I agree with this. If a card said "All purple heroes in must join the battle" and I played it on my ET, I couldn't band my opponent's ET into battle because of the no duplicates in battle rule. I view this similarly. The only conclusion I can see is one Michael goes to the discard pile in spite of Chamber.

EDIT: I just saw that YMT included a banding example in his post too...I missed that the first time around. Anyway, I believe YMT is correct in ruling and reasoning.

I disagree, the situation seems more like a situation where I capture my opponents ET (I have one in my territory) and place him in my land of bondage . Then I have to discard one of them, but to my knowledge I can still capture ET.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #24 on:** July 16, 2010, 12:21:26 PM »

Quote from: TheHobbit13 on July 16, 2010, 12:13:56 PM

I disagree, the situation seems more like a situation where I capture my opponents ET (I have one in my territory) and place him in my land of bondage . Then I have to discard one of them, but to my knowledge I can still capture ET.

The difference in that example is that the other ET is your opponent's. The Chamber scenario is more like the banding scenario because one player owns and controls both.

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Author Topic: Infinite loop issue? (Read 6444 times)

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo

Warrior_Monk

Lamborghini_diablo

TheHobbit13