Author Topic: Indirect negation? (Read 5203 times)

RTSmaniac · « **on:** March 07, 2011, 06:31:50 PM »

ok I draw 2 cards off of 2Khorses and play Sitc(that i drew). Opponent plays Baptism of Jesus targeting the Evil Character. What happens to Sitc?

Two Thousand Horses (Ki)
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Pale Green • Ability: 2 / 2 • Class: Weapon • Special Ability: Holder may interrupt the battle, draw 2 cards from the top of own draw pile, and play the next enhancement. • Play As: You may interrupt the battle, draw 2 and play an enhancement. • Identifiers: OT, Depicts a Weapon • Verse: II Kings 18:23 • Availability: Kings booster packs (Common)

Baptism of Jesus (Di)
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Green • Ability: 1 / 3 • Class: None • Special Ability: Negate special abilities on Evil Characters and weapons. If used by a N.T. prophet, discard an evil card. Cannot be prevented. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Matthew 3:16 • Availability: Disciples

SomeKittens · « **Reply #1 on:** March 07, 2011, 08:53:45 PM »

It stays in territory.

Gabe · « **Reply #2 on:** March 07, 2011, 09:03:34 PM »

The ability to play an enhancement cannot be interrupted, however the enhancement that's played can. SitC is indirectly negated and returned to deck.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #3 on:** March 07, 2011, 09:08:52 PM »

How exactly does that work? The playing of SitC is CBI, and it wasn't negated in territory.

Gabe · « **Reply #4 on:** March 07, 2011, 09:11:53 PM »

The ability that drew SitC was negated so both cards are returned to deck. If it was not one of the two cards drawn it would not be negated in this example, because Baptism of Jesus cannot interrupt the "play" ability of 2KH. Does that help this make sense?

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #5 on:** March 07, 2011, 11:18:10 PM »

I am still confused on your answer Gabe.

Gabe · « **Reply #6 on:** March 07, 2011, 11:49:05 PM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on March 07, 2011, 11:18:10 PM

I am still confused on your answer Gabe.

Maybe you could explain what confuses you?

SomeKittens · « **Reply #7 on:** March 07, 2011, 11:56:38 PM »

I thought the playing of an enhancement couldn't be undone.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #8 on:** March 08, 2011, 12:04:40 AM »

I think drawing abilities should be ruled to be CBI, just because that would make all gameplay so much less confusing. Once I draw cards, I like to order them in my hand (because otherwise I don't know what I have to work with), and once I do that I can't remember which cards I actually drew, and I know many others have the same problem. That is not to mention the question of which order to put the cards in, which can be game-changing. I'll bet no one else would agree with me, and I know it would make some unused cards even less used, but I'd just like to vent my frustrations about this particular game mechanic.

Gabe · « **Reply #9 on:** March 08, 2011, 12:06:40 AM »

This is what the REG says:

Quote from: REG

The ability to play an enhancement cannot be interrupted.

I think maybe some people have this confused and think it means "Enhancements played by a special ability cannot be interrupted".

The REG statement only means that you cannot indirectly negate the enhancement by negating (or interrupting) the ability that allowed it to be played. You can still directly, or indirectly, negate the played enhancement by other means.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #10 on:** March 08, 2011, 12:08:54 AM »

So essentially, you cannot un-play an enhancement by negating the ability that caused it to be played, but you can un-play an enhancement by negating the ability that caused it to be drawn?

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #11 on:** March 08, 2011, 12:46:01 AM »

oh man. yea def need to read that ten times.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #12 on:** March 08, 2011, 03:07:17 AM »

Wouldn't it be way easier to say "initiative cannot be interrupted?"

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #13 on:** March 08, 2011, 01:41:04 PM »

ok so...

ET+Reach+AoC.
You block KoT from hand.
AoC goes on top of deck?

Gabe · « **Reply #14 on:** March 08, 2011, 02:00:15 PM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on March 08, 2011, 01:41:04 PM

ok so...

ET+Reach+AoC.
You block KoT from hand.
AoC goes on top of deck?

If it was one of the three cards you drew from Reach, yes. If you already had it in hand it stays in battle.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #15 on:** March 08, 2011, 02:43:06 PM »

So, what about Tithe? Can that be negated, and the enhancement sent to hand?

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #16 on:** March 08, 2011, 07:07:16 PM »

In your example, if it's AoCP it sticks because CBI abilities always remain!

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #17 on:** March 08, 2011, 09:29:07 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on March 08, 2011, 07:07:16 PM

In your example, if it's AoCP it sticks because CBI abilities always remain!

Wait, are you saying that if an enhancement is CBI, then negating the ability that drew it will not send it back to deck?

Red · « **Reply #18 on:** March 08, 2011, 09:34:12 PM »

it won't anyway.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #19 on:** March 09, 2011, 11:10:04 AM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on March 08, 2011, 09:29:07 PM

Quote from: Minister Polarius on March 08, 2011, 07:07:16 PM
In your example, if it's AoCP it sticks because CBI abilities always remain!
Wait, are you saying that if an enhancement is CBI, then negating the ability that drew it will not send it back to deck?

That's correct. Negating an ability that drew a card that has since been played will negate and return that card, unless it is CBI/N.

Red · « **Reply #20 on:** March 09, 2011, 11:15:21 AM »

Not if it was played by the same SA. Play SAs are CBI by default.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #21 on:** March 09, 2011, 11:52:07 AM »

But draw abilities are not. You aren't negating the initiative, you're negating the draw.

Red · « **Reply #22 on:** March 09, 2011, 11:53:40 AM »

But even if I drew the card you couldn't send it back.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #23 on:** March 09, 2011, 12:01:40 PM »

Seriously, would it break the game to make draw abilities CBI? That would just totally clear all confusion (and TBH that's often how I play in casual games anyway, unless I'm up against top players).

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #24 on:** March 09, 2011, 12:14:04 PM »

Incorrect Red and no, it wouldn't break the game, but drawing is strong enough already without making it CBI and there's no compelling reason to change the rule.

People are always confused about how placed Enhancements work, should we just make them all CBN because some people don't want to learn the rules?

News:

Author Topic: Indirect negation? (Read 5203 times)