Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Josh on April 22, 2012, 11:32:10 PM
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I band to my opp's Egyptian Archer, use his discard ability on my opp's hero. Opponent plays Striking Herod. Is EArcher interrupted and the discard undone? Need answer fast plz.
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Yes. Interrupts stop the last ability in battle. I'm not 100% sure about this (it may only be enhancement), but I'm reasonably sure.
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Yes. Interrupts stop the last ability in battle. I'm not 100% sure about this (it may only be enhancement), but I'm reasonably sure.
It doesn't stop the last ability, on the last enhancement provided it was played by your opponent.
From the REG
"Interrupt the battle interrupts the following:
Your opponent’s special abilities that are (1) causing you to be losing by removal (e.g., your opponent’s Net (BL)), or (2) causing a mutual destruction by mutual removal (e.g., your opponent’s King Zimri (Ki) but not your own King Zimri (Ki)).
The last enhancement played in battle, as long as it was played by an opponent (e.g., your opponent’s False Peace (Pr) but not your own Reach of Desperation (Wo)).
ALL ongoing special abilities (see Ongoing Abilities)."
Assuming the REG is not wrong, I see no reason that Egyptian archer would not be interrupted.
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No. The discard of the hero is not interrupted.
Drrek has the list of three items correct right, and precisely none of them would cancel the discard. Since EA cannot discard a hero from battle that ability is *not* interrupted.
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My mistake, at least I cited where I might be wrong, right? :angel:
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My mistake, at least I cited where I might be wrong, right? :angel:
;)
You were still mostly correct. After all, Striking Herod does interrupt the Archer's self-discard as that is an ongoing ability.
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No. The discard of the hero is not interrupted.
Drrek has the list of three items correct right, and precisely none of them would cancel the discard. Since EA cannot discard a hero from battle that ability is *not* interrupted.
This is what I thought.
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I do not believe ur correct,
ITB does exactly what it says, I'm interrupting the Character effect, the complete effect (unless it's CBI/CBN) and then removing him from Battle.
Also, the D/C Archer part is automatically stopped if he leaves battle. That was what was said on that so it doesn't matter if I interrupt that.
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I do not believe ur correct,
ITB does exactly what it says, I'm interrupting the Character effect, the complete effect (unless it's CBI/CBN) and then removing him from Battle.
Also, the D/C Archer part is automatically stopped if he leaves battle. That was what was said on that so it doesn't matter if I interrupt that.
Drrek's REG quote proves you wrong, actually.
Also, the discarding ability on Archer does not get stopped if he leaves battle. The discard does not hinge on Archer being discarded. You are 100% incorrect.
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ITB does exactly what it says, I'm interrupting the Character effect, the complete effect....
This is a common misperception. ITB is clearly defined in the REG quote above. Any completed instant abilities that were not from the last enhancement or are not causing a loss by removal are not interrupted by ITB.
Also, the D/C Archer part is automatically stopped if he leaves battle. That was what was said on that so it doesn't matter if I interrupt that.
A completed instant ability is not stopped unless it is interrupted or negated, which Archer's discard of the hero was not, in this case.
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Then ITB is useless, it doesn't do anything ever in this meta which doesn't flow. And that means that all Characters are CBI and thus no use to use any and all ITB cards because they don't actually do a thing.
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Then ITB is useless, it doesn't do anything ever in this meta which doesn't flow. And that means that all Characters are CBI and thus no use to use any and all ITB cards because they don't actually do a thing.
That is going a little too far, and I'm not sure why you're so upset. ITB is as specific as "Interrupt XYZ" or "Negate XYZ". It has specific targets. In fact, it does more than a standard interrupt or negate, even if it does not target everything.
Characters are still negated by interrupts and negates that target them, but you don't say that interrupts and negates are useless if they don't target a character, do you?
And, in fact, ITB does interrupt any character abilities causing you to lose the battle by removal.
You should calm down, take emotion out of it, and look at the actual rules for each card and use them for their specific purpose :)
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Actually REG does not allow ITB to affect Characters.
If it is Interrupting the Battle it should interrupt everything in battle (except CBI/CBN) play its effect then continue the battle not Interrupt the last Enhancement.
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"Interrupt the battle interrupts the following:
Your opponent’s special abilities that are (1) causing you to be losing by removal (e.g., your opponent’s Net (BL)), or (2) causing a mutual destruction by mutual removal (e.g., your opponent’s King Zimri (Ki) but not your own King Zimri (Ki)).
The last enhancement played in battle, as long as it was played by an opponent (e.g., your opponent’s False Peace (Pr) but not your own Reach of Desperation (Wo)).
ALL ongoing special abilities (see Ongoing Abilities)."
Read it again. It specifies in the examples even that it can interrupt a character, when that character is causing a losing condition by removal or mutual destruction. It also interrupts ongoing abilities, which everyone pointed out includes the second part of Archer's ability.
It does not stop instant abilities that don't cause removal, nor should it. Should every interrupt I play interrupt the draw your character made, or the search they allowed, or anything that happened 5 cards ago? No. That is also why it only interrupts the last enhancement.
The whole point of ITB is to stop an effect causing you to lose or to stop the last enhancement your opponent played (if you then get initiative). It does a lot, and you should calm down and read the rule completely before assuming otherwise.
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There already is Interrupt the last Enhancement cards for that. ITB shouldn't do that, if I Interrupt and D/C a Character, that should stop the ENTIRE effect. Not a tiny peice of that effect that most likely has no effect to me. As it is, ITB isn't doing what it says, all it's doing is Interrupting 'Ongoing' abilities, (which most Characters don't have) and the Last Enhancement, nothing else. Basically it's not doing what it's suppose to do.
Another way this is harms it is that if I play a card that says 'Interrupt a Character and Discard it' that card would not do anything except D/C the Character. Basically I wouldn't be helping myself any in stopping its effect.
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Ok, you seriously do need to calm, take a step back, and reread the abilities.
You are mixing targeted interrupts and ITB. ITB has very specific targets, and, again, it does target characters when they cause removal or have ongoing abilities.
Something that says "Interrupt and discard an Evil Character", however, is a very different ability. It specifically targets the Evil Character and temporarily undoes it entirely temporarily, even instant abilities that already activated, and then discards the EC.
Interrupt is an ability. Interrupt the Battle specifies the targets listed above. Other interrupts target what is specified in their ability.
But really, I do not understand why in these threads you take everything personally, even if something isn't the horrible thing you thought it was. This isn't other games, not everything is going to work the same, and we have people here to help you when you need help reconciling the rules. There is no need to be constantly hostile about it.
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Another way this is harms it is that if I play a card that says 'Interrupt a Character and Discard it' that card would not do anything except D/C the Character. Basically I wouldn't be helping myself any in stopping its effect.
Actually, if a card had that ability, then it would interrupt EArcher's whole ability including the discard, because the card specifically interrupts that character.
ITB is something different though. It interrupts ongoing abilities (and there's a lot of them - protect/immune/ignores, FBTN, etc), the last enhancement played by your opponent, and any abilities that are removing you from the battle. That's plenty. Unless the card removing you from battle is CBI or CBN, ITB saves you.
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Can't we all just get along.....lol! :) Smile God loves you!! :angel:
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As I see it ITB doesn't. And this makes cards like Striking Herod useless.
And a Discard Ability is a trigger (instant) not Ongoing.
If interrupt doesn't mean the same thing overall then how can it mean anything?
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"Interrupt a character" has a specific target. "Interrupt an enhancement" has a specific target. "Interrupt the battle" has specific targets.
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Battle is not a target.
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Battle is not a target.
"Interrupt the battle" does have targets, which are the 3 things listed above. That's how ITB is defined. Every ability in Redemption does what it does specifically because it is defined to do so.
All interrupts target abilities, not characters or enhancements. "Interrupt a character" interrupts that character's ability. "Interrupt an enhancement" interrupts that enhancement's ability. "Interrupt the battle" interrupts all abilities that fall in the 3 categories above.
Striking Herod is definitely not useless. It interrupts ongoing abilities, which includes Protect abilities. If your opponent blocked with Proud Pharisee and played Self-Righteous Prayer, you would not be able to discard PP without interrupting or negating the discard protection of SRP. It also interrupts any abilities that are causing you to lose the battle, such as King Zimri or an enhancement played by your opponent. And it also can win you the battle by discarding a human evil character.
Frankly, not being able to use SH to interrupt EArcher's ability when EArcher isn't even targeting the hero in battle is the least of your concerns.
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This is a pointless debate. We have explained the definition fo ITB to megamanlan. It's not that he doesn't understand the definition, he just doesn't like it. There's nothing more we can do.
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Battle is a place, so If I Interrupt the battle, I should interrupt the whole battle, not just the easy to stop stuff.
As I see it, cards like SH aren't doing what they should. Making them not as good as they should be.
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Battle is a place, so If I Interrupt the battle, I should interrupt the whole battle, not just the easy to stop stuff.
As I see it, cards like SH aren't doing what they should. Making them not as good as they should be.
Except Interrupt the Battle has a different definition, and it's not one that's going to change.
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That is the problem, ITB should be at least better then interrupting a Card, which it's not.
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That is the problem, ITB should be at least better then interrupting a Card, which it's not.
It interrupts all ongoing abilities and the last enhancement played. That actually seems to be a reasonable amount for one ability to cover. It doesn't need to encompass every ability that's been played during the battle, since, in the opinion of myself and many others here, it wouldn't make sense for it to interrupt abilities that happened two or three cards ago; it's merely interrupting the battle, not erasing it. At any rate, regardless of your opinion on the matter, other people disagree, including those who run the operation, so it's not going to change.
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This is a pointless debate. We have explained the definition fo ITB to megamanlan. It's not that he doesn't understand the definition, he just doesn't like it. There's nothing more we can do.
This.
ITB has specific targets, just like CBP, CBI, and CBN don't just stop the last letter of their acronym but specify when cards played against them will work.
It is very clearly defined in the rules, and feeling that it should be different isn't going to change that. This is how the game is played.
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Actually, it was defined enough in the rulebooks because in there it gives a different impression (it doesn't actually define ITB) but I guess it doesn't matter much on my thoughts.
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Actually, it was defined enough in the rulebooks because in there it gives a different impression (it doesn't actually define ITB) but I guess it doesn't matter much on my thoughts.
See, but it DOES define it, you just aren't reading it.
Look in the REG, under Interrupt, under Special Conditions:
Special Conditions
The phrase “interrupt the battle includes interrupting the following:
all active ongoing abilities
abilities that are defeating one of the characters you control in battle
the last enhancement played in current battle if it was played by your opponent.
Interrupt the battle only includes such abilities if they are on cards that are in battle.
It is understandable if you can't find it, but this was quoted to you, from the REG, multiple times in this thread. Once it is pointed out where it is and what the definition is, why do you always continue to fight? I don't understand it at all. We're trying to help point you to what you need from the rules, but we just get hostility back.
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Seeing as how this question has been answered, I'm going to lock the thread.