Author Topic: immune + banding>negate banding? (Read 11121 times)

Warrior_Monk · « **on:** January 31, 2009, 03:35:14 PM »

if I'm immune and banded, can they negate my banding?

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #1 on:** January 31, 2009, 03:38:09 PM »

Totally depends. What banding card? Immune stops the character from being harmed. Go off of that. Negating a character's ability is protected by immunity. Negating an enhancement played by that character is not.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #2 on:** January 31, 2009, 03:43:12 PM »

Quote from: Cameron the Conqueror on January 31, 2009, 03:38:09 PM

Totally depends. What banding card? Immune stops the character from being harmed. Go off of that. Negating a character's ability is protected by immunity. Negating an enhancement played by that character is not.

no immune stops the character from being targeted. hero banding.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #3 on:** January 31, 2009, 03:50:11 PM »

If immunity stopped your opponent from negating, it would technically be CBI, wouldn't it?

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #4 on:** January 31, 2009, 03:52:04 PM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on January 31, 2009, 03:50:11 PM

If immunity stopped your opponent from negating, it would technically be CBI, wouldn't it?

negating banding, not immunity.

galadgawyn · « **Reply #5 on:** January 31, 2009, 05:37:36 PM »

According to the Protection of Angels debate, I don't think that is correct. I think the current definition of protect says that you cannot protect from negation so regardless of what kind of protection you have any of your abilities can be negated. The only exception to this is having the "cannot be negated" type abilities. That is the only protection that protects from negation.

lightningninja · « **Reply #6 on:** January 31, 2009, 05:40:25 PM »

Galadywin is correct. You can negate his banding.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #7 on:** January 31, 2009, 06:52:53 PM »

protect is not immune. it falls in the same catagory, but it does not mean the same thing. it has nothing to do with Protection of Angels...

sk · « **Reply #8 on:** January 31, 2009, 07:14:49 PM »

No. Strong Angel enters battle, makes battle BTN. The Stars is negated. Strong Angel exits battle, but battle remains BTN, so The Stars doesn't reactivate.

Arch Angel · « **Reply #9 on:** January 31, 2009, 07:19:02 PM »

Quote from: the musicain on January 31, 2009, 07:15:38 PM

well isnt ther a rule called the endless loop? BTN?

No. like sk said, once TSA (or whoever's causing BTN) enters battle, the battle STAYS BTN.

sk · « **Reply #10 on:** January 31, 2009, 07:20:04 PM »

Quote from: the musicain on January 31, 2009, 07:15:38 PM

well isnt ther a rule called the endless loop? BTN?

No. BTN = By the numbers.

Scottie_ffgamer · « **Reply #11 on:** January 31, 2009, 07:50:32 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on January 31, 2009, 06:52:53 PM

protect is not immune. it falls in the same catagory, but it does not mean the same thing. it has nothing to do with Protection of Angels...

Ring Wraith, when galadgawyn mentioned the 'protection of angels debate', he didn't mean that PoA had anything to do directly with this situation, but that there has already been a discussion on this subject.

I think that the banding would able to be negated.

Quote from: REG

You cannot target something that is immune.

Technically, if you are negating all banding or making it BTN, you aren't targeting the Hero. If the Hero's ability was banding, and someone played something to negate that hero's SA, then I don't think so. But negating banding in general or making it BTN would work. But again, that's just my opinion.....

Arch Angel · « **Reply #12 on:** January 31, 2009, 10:55:58 PM »

How is directly targeting a single character's ability any different than negating all banding or making the battle FBTN? Immunity does not stop negate.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #13 on:** January 31, 2009, 11:10:26 PM »

I don't think that the SA's of immune characters should be negatable until the immune is removed. (That is, the character SA, not necessarily his/her enhancements.)

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #14 on:** January 31, 2009, 11:26:39 PM »

unless you interrupt the immunity, how can the character be targeted for a negate? you are targeting the char. S.A. which is targeting a character.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #15 on:** January 31, 2009, 11:31:56 PM »

Exactly.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #16 on:** February 01, 2009, 02:09:22 AM »

Not to sound off but, what immune hero can band(with negatable banding)?

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #17 on:** February 01, 2009, 08:45:53 AM »

Hmmm...King Hezekiah (kings) I think.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #18 on:** February 01, 2009, 08:57:12 AM »

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on February 01, 2009, 02:09:22 AM

Not to sound off but, what immune hero can band(with negatable banding)?

grain offering... I'm reviving it.

777Godspeed · « **Reply #19 on:** February 01, 2009, 12:24:15 PM »

Here is the scenario that was in the PoA discussion about negating a band.
Cherubim bands to ET and Protection of Angels is played.
Twelve-Fingered Giant is used to block.
The question was "Does TFG negate the band?"
after a long discussion the Official Answer was "Yes."

Cherubim
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Silver • Ability: 5 / 5 • Class: None • Special Ability: May band to any Purple Brigade Hero. • Identifiers: Generic OT Male Angel • Verse: Ezekiel 10:14 •

Ethiopian Treasurer
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Purple • Ability: 5 / 4 • Class: None • Special Ability: Search own draw pile or discard pile for one Bible icon with no special abilities. Holder may play the next enhancement card. • Play As: Holder must search own draw pile or discard pile for one Bible icon with no special abilities and put it in hand. Holder may play the next enhancement card. • Identifiers: NT Male Human • Verse: Acts 8:27 •

Protection of Angels
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Silver • Ability: 2 / 3 • Class: None • Special Ability: Interrupt the battle and protect all Heroes in play and set aside areas from evil cards until end of turn. • Identifiers: OT, Involves Music • Verse: Psalms 91:11 •

The Twelve-Fingered Giant
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Black • Ability: 6 / 12 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: Negate all banding abilities. Cannot be negated. • Identifiers: OT Male Giant (Human), Philistia, Fought Earthly Battle • Verse: I Chronicles 20:6 •

In essence, TFGs "Negate all banding abilities" is attempting to target Cherubims banding to ET. Because TFGs 'Negate all banding abilities. Cannot be negated." SA, it essentianlly "punches a hole" through the protection and negates the band. If TFGs "Cannot Be Negated" part had been left off ot the card, TFG would attempt to target the band, but PoA would protect the band.

From the REG:
All of the following phrases are protect abilities:
• Protect …
• Is protected from …
• Is prevented from being …
• Cannot be …
• May not be …
• May only be … by
• Must be … by
• Immune to …
• Ignores …

Protect
Protect allows cards to be unaffected by specified special abilities.

Immune
Immune is a special ability for characters. Immunity protects a character from being defeated or directly affected by another card. An immunity card does not prevent that type of character from entering the Field of Battle.
Note: Immunity on a character does not protect other characters that may be banded into battle.

Notice that each of the abilities above does not prevent a special ability. They only limit the special ability to other targets.

General Description - Cannot Be Negated
“Cannot be negated” is a combination of “cannot be interrupted” and “cannot be prevented” (see Cannot be Negated in the glossary of the rulebook [p. 41]). “Cannot be negated” specifically targets the negate special ability, the interrupt special ability, and the prevent special ability. “Cannot be negated” cannot be stopped.

however, “Cannot be negated” abilities cannot be negated even by other “cannot be negated” abilities.

Hope this helps to solve your question about immune + banding>negate banding?
The answer is clear, but the situation will ultimately dictate how it is played out.

Godspeed,
Mike

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #20 on:** February 01, 2009, 01:52:56 PM »

Quote from: 777Godspeed on February 01, 2009, 12:24:15 PM

Immune
Immune is a special ability for characters. Immunity protects a character from being defeated or directly affected by another card. An immunity card does not prevent that type of character from entering the Field of Battle.
Note: Immunity on a character does not protect other characters that may be banded into battle.
abilities.

but it is being directly affected by another card. you're killing the ability without interrupting the immunity.

also, if Immunity and Protect both fall under the catagory of Protect, then how do we define which protect is a protect or protect under a protect? I don't know of a situation that works this way yet, but I can see a "Negate protect abilities" artifact possibility in the near future.

Arch Angel · « **Reply #21 on:** February 01, 2009, 02:03:04 PM »

The Tartan negates all protect abilities on characters and fortresses. But that only targets specific PROTECT abilities. an Immune ability is a form of protect, but it is NOT protect.

Also, why should the fact the 12 fingers' ability is CBN mean anything? There's nothing trying to negate 12 Fingers' Ability.

It works like this...

Negate (Scissors) > Protect, Immune, Ignore, etc (Paper) > Cannot Be Negated (Rock) > Negate (Scissors)

and on and on and on. Negate trumps any form Protect, Ignore or Immune ability unless it is CBN.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #22 on:** February 01, 2009, 02:10:27 PM »

Quote from: Archangel withabunchofnumbersontheend on February 01, 2009, 02:03:04 PM

The Tartan negates all protect abilities on characters and fortresses. But that only targets specific PROTECT abilities. an Immune ability is a form of protect, but it is NOT protect.

Also, why should the fact the 12 fingers' ability is CBN mean anything? There's nothing trying to negate 12 Fingers' Ability.

It works like this...

Negate (Scissors) > Protect, Immune, Ignore, etc (Paper) > Cannot Be Negated (Rock) > Negate (Scissors)

and on and on and on. Negate trumps any form Protect, Ignore or Immune ability unless it is CBN.

no, negate stops any form of protect, ignore, or immune. this immunity is CBN, but we aren't talking about negating that, the question is, since Immune=cannot be targeted can you 'target' a S.A. of a character that is unnegatably immune?

lightningninja · « **Reply #23 on:** February 01, 2009, 05:15:59 PM »

Guys, it really doesn't matter. The answer is official. This may sound harsh... but it really doesn't matter what you think at this point. Just accept the ruling.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #24 on:** February 01, 2009, 05:27:08 PM »

Quote from: fireninja on February 01, 2009, 05:15:59 PM

Guys, it really doesn't matter. The answer is official. This may sound harsh... but it really doesn't matter what you think at this point. Just accept the ruling.

but I don't think it's a just ruling, and I mean to get it changed.

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Author Topic: immune + banding>negate banding? (Read 11121 times)

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