Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Because captain effects the whole battle. John only ignore, it's his ability, HE ignores. Same with King David. Captain's ability is universal.

Hey,

So if John is ignoring Pale Green, and gets discarded.  Then later during that battle Forgotten History is played, can John be removed from the game by Forgotten History?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

So special abilities work in the discardpile now? I would understand if the card specifically stated while in the discardpile. Even if it is an ongoing ability it is understood to target CARDS in play, such as forgotten history targets CARDS in the discardpile.

I have been treating The Garden Tomb as if it has the play as, "If opponent has a Redeemed Soul, Salome, Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Peter, John, and Mary the Mother of James gain the ability 'ignores all evil brigades that do not have at least two characters in play.'"

hey,
I'm not sure this is how it should be played as currently worded. Is Household Idols the one ignoring good banding cards?
Household Idols is in the territory and actively ignoring; TGT (as all fortresses are) is active in the territory. As worded, shouldn't it be making it's Heroes actively ignoring?

Because captain effects the whole battle. John only ignore, it's his ability, HE ignores. Same with King David. Captain's ability is universal.

I disagree. Part of "Ignore" is a special ability that affects the whole battle as well - they stop an ignored character from entering battle. If the ignore ability is active (Household Idols, King David that has been removed from battle, and TGT Heroes in play - as TGT is currently worded), those cards should continue to stop an ignored character from entering battle (hence the need for eratta).

L8er,
Gil

... against the ignoring character.

hey,
Only if we change the default condition to something like, "Characters that are ignored and are not in battle cannot enter battle against the ignoring character."
That would be a better wording than my first suggestion. As Stamp and SirNobody point out, though, wouldn't this would be an inconsistency involving the ongoing-ness of Ignore?
L8er,
Gil

Only the hero ignores. That's the bottom line. So if the hero is gone, HE'S NOT BEING BLOCKED. He does not give a "ignore all evil characters" ability to all heroes in battle. That's not how ignore works. Ignore only works for the hero with the ignore ability, so if he is removed, you are NOT blocking him. You are blocking his friends, who do not ignore.

So let's say that heroes can ignore form territory.  Why would they prevent a character from entering battle?  Shouldn't only heroes in battle be able to stop an evil character from entering battle?

hey,
Am I missing something in the rules? I don't see anything in the glossary that assumes that the ignore condition, "An ignore card stops an ignored character from entering the Field of Battle," applies only when an ignoring character is in battle.
And, in the Ignore - How To Play section, the relevant info (If a character is ignored, it can not ... enter ... battle) is written from the perspective of the character being ignored. The same assumption isn't there either.
Why wouldn't either one of these apply to a John or HHI in the territory since the ignore is active?
The thought that ignored characters cannot enter battle against an ignoring character is only half true - the missing half is that once (and for as long as) an ignore is active, it stops the character from entering the battle from wherever it is. There's no such distinction between some "universal" ignore and a character's ignore ability. It's just that we haven't seen the opportunity before for a character in a territory to actively be ignoring.
L8er,
Gil

Okay, if you block with red dragon, and then are discarded, are all your other evil characters immune to humans? No. Same princple.

 I agree with ninja. This line of thinking makes no sense. Characters with ignore abilities do not convey their ignore powers to other characters. If you rescue with Widow, I block with Nero, and you band in King David, I can still play enhancements to affect Widow. She does not gain David's "ignore royalty" ability, and is thusly fair game.

 If David dies or leaves battle, his ignore dies with him. I have never seen anybody ever rule or say otherwise. I don't know why a Garden Tomb ignore would work in territory and give ignore powers to Heroes that aren't listed on the card. That's just ridiculous.

Hey,
Over the years I have seen a lot of players that thought abilities "die" when the character bearing the ability leaves battle.  This is not the case and never has been for any ability other than ignore, I don't see any reason why ignore should be different than all the other abilities in this respect.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

And this is where I believe a true "ignore" ability differs from a "cannot be blocked by" ability.  Ignore DOES continue until the end of the phase.

Hey,

And this is where I believe a true "ignore" ability differs from a "cannot be blocked by" ability.  Ignore DOES continue until the end of the phase.

Based on the current rules set there is no difference between "ignore" and "cannot be blocked by."

Quote from: SirNobody on May 22, 2009, 06:30:36 PM

Aaron attacks, blocked by Emperor Claudius, Miriam banded into battle.  If Miriam's ignore ability is negated Aaron dies.  As long as Miriam's ignore ability is active Aaron does not die.  Aaron does not gain the ignore ability, but he does benefit from it.

I actually don't think that this is correct.

I am very, very, very confident that it is correct.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Immunity and Ignore are different abilities.  This is one of the ways in which they are different.

You seem to be one of only a handful of people who think so.

Over the years I have seen a lot of players that thought abilities "die" when the character bearing the ability leaves battle.  This is not the case and never has been for any ability other than ignore, I don't see any reason why ignore should be different than all the other abilities in this respect.

IT'S... NOT.  If the ignoring character stops ignored characters from entering battle against him, then the ability does not have to die in order for this to work the way everyone else seems to think it works.  THIS IS NOT A DIFFERENCE.  STOP CALLING IT A DIFFERENCE.

I am very, very, very confident that it is correct.

Bryon ruled that since David wasn't in battle, emperors could come back in.

Apparently, it's not correct.

Am I missing something in the rules? I don't see anything in the glossary that assumes that the ignore condition, "An ignore card stops an ignored character from entering the Field of Battle," applies only when an ignoring character is in battle.

You don't see an assumption.  That's why it's an assumption.  If you saw it, that would be a statement.  If you're looking for something indirect, it does link to the rulebook entry on "Winning by Ignore" which talks all about the Hero, not the ignore ability by itself.

Of course, if we're to assume that the rulebook/REG is 100% comprehensive and no assumptions are ever made about standard gameplay, then according to the rules, it is impossible for an Evil Character to win a battle by ignore or immunity, because that entry ONLY talks about the Hero defeating the Evil Character, not the other way around.

At what point are we allowed to just inject a little common sense?

Quote

Bryon ruled that since David wasn't in battle, emperors could come back in.
Apparently, it's not correct.

Huh?? Since when does David's ignore ability stay in battle if he's not there to be blocked?   If HE cannot be blocked by royalty, and he is not specifically in battle, then banding Nero into battle is not an illegal play.

Read the ruling again.  If David is NOT in battle, the Emperors CAN come back in.  Bryon's ruling was exactly what you say, and it directly contradicts Tim's theory.  We three are all in agreement.