Author Topic: Ignoring enhancements? (Read 1541 times)

JSB23 · « **on:** May 09, 2013, 02:29:18 PM »

Can enhancements be ignored?

asrgimli · « **Reply #1 on:** May 09, 2013, 02:33:43 PM »

Yes. For example, Jochebed ignores all Egyptian Evil Charachters and enhancements played with them. In general, if a character is ignoring another character, then they also ignore the enhancements played on those characters.

browarod · « **Reply #2 on:** May 09, 2013, 02:36:11 PM »

While the spirit of asrgimli's post is correct, you can't actually ignore an enhancement. Enhancements are used by characters so if you're ignoring a character their enhancements cannot affect you, but you aren't "ignoring the enhancements."

The distinction comes into play when ignoring one brigade of a multi-brigade character. I still cannot affect the ignoring character with an enhancement of the non-ignored brigade because the character is being ignored, not the enhancements.

asrgimli · « **Reply #3 on:** May 09, 2013, 02:42:12 PM »

Thanks for clarifying my argument...I knew it was something along those lines but still haven't figured out all the nuances of the terminology.

TimMierz · « **Reply #4 on:** May 09, 2013, 02:48:29 PM »

I could find no support in the current REG for this, but I could have sworn that ignoring an enhancement negated it. So, Stone Cut Without Hands ("Holder ignores the Great Image card.") would negate Great Image. Peter's Mother-in-Law ("Hero ignores all poisons and diseases.") would negate poisons played on the current turn. When Miriam ("Hero ignores Gold Brigade.") is attacking, Emperor Vitellius (gray) can enter battle but Heavy Taxes (gray/gold) would be negated.

These situations are pretty rare and mostly involve old cards. (Household Idols would be the easiest culprit, but it ignores and prevents banding.) The current REG only talks about ignoring characters though, and so I have no support. It also means that cards like Stone Cut Without Hands, Peter's Mother-in-Law, Queen of Sheba, Manna, and a few other cards have an "illegal" ability on them.

TimMierz · « **Reply #5 on:** May 09, 2013, 02:52:00 PM »

DOUBLE POST!

Does Michal ("Character ignores David and any enhancement cards connected with him.") ignore Scorn of Michal ("All Brown Brigade Evil Characters in holder's territory must join the battle."; identifier: Connected with David)? If so, does that ignoring even mean anything?

JSB23 · « **Reply #6 on:** May 09, 2013, 02:55:46 PM »

If I'm ignoring a certain brigade, do I ignore all enhancements of that brigade?

EDIT:

Just checked the new REG

Quote from: REG

An ignore special ability is an ability that keeps its targets from targeting or being targeted by a specified set of cards. It also
allows a character using an ignore ability to win a battle regardless of normal battle conditions.

Since an enhancement is part of the set being ignored, it would also be ignored. There is also nothing in the REG entry which says ignore only targets characters.

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #7 on:** May 09, 2013, 04:00:45 PM »

I am fairly sure ignoring enhancements works the same as ignoring character, except that you can still play ignored enhancements.

So accounting for how enhancements differ from characters Ignoring enhancements means:
1) The numbers don't count for the battle (or against the ignoring characters)
2) The special ability cannot target ignoring characters.

This means that while Michal ignores Scorn of Michal since it doesn't target her nor do the numbers count against her (they add to her) that means the ignoring of that enhancement is meaningless.

Of course this also means Stone Cut without Hands is meaningless since the player ignoring an enhancement that targets characters doesn't do anything (although I could see an argument that Stone Cut without Hands could refer to Holder's characters)

browarod · « **Reply #8 on:** May 09, 2013, 04:08:41 PM »

@jsb23 - If that were the case, then if I'm ignoring crimson you shouldn't be able to play crimson evil enhancements even to affect things other than my ignoring Hero, yet everyone always plays ignore as infinite initiative and people frequently use the opportunity to hit the ignoring person's territory before either ending the battle or interrupting/negating the ignore.

Should that be how it's ruled based on your post? No. But that's how I've seen it played with no contention. So either everyone has been playing it wrong, or the REG has a slight oversight in not mentioning that enhancements can't be ignored. (or we're all misunderstanding one thing or another, which is entirely possible, lol)

JSB23 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 09, 2013, 04:21:02 PM »

Quote from: browarod on May 09, 2013, 04:08:41 PM

If that were the case, then if I'm ignoring crimson you shouldn't be able to play crimson evil enhancements even to affect things other than my ignoring Hero.

Not at all, go back and re-read the definition of ignore.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #10 on:** May 09, 2013, 04:37:55 PM »

As Christian Soldier stated, the only difference between ignoring enhancements and ignoring characters is that ignored enhancements can enter battle. Otherwise, it works exactly the same: the numbers don't count against ignoring characters, the special abilities can't target ignoring characters, and ignoring characters can't target the enhancement.

Ignored enhancements are not negated, so Stone Cut Without Hands does not negate Great Image. However, the way it is worded, "Holder" is an older term for "you", and "you" ignoring something doesn't make sense in the current rules. Thus it should probably have errata to say "Your Heroes ignore Great Image", which is probably the closest interpretation of the ability. On the other hand, the Warriors Helmet of Salvation "Hero ignores Confusion" does nothing substantive, unless Confusion is ever reprinted to have numbers or a special ability that can target a Hero.

Michal does ignore Scorn of Michal (apparently...lol) but as has been stated, all that means is that the numbers don't affect the battle. The ability still works, as it isn't trying to target Michal.

TimMierz · « **Reply #11 on:** May 09, 2013, 04:44:51 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on May 09, 2013, 04:37:55 PM

As Christian Soldier stated, the only difference between ignoring enhancements and ignoring characters is that ignored enhancements can enter battle. Otherwise, it works exactly the same: the numbers don't count against ignoring characters, the special abilities can't target ignoring characters, and ignoring characters can't target the enhancement.

Ignored enhancements are not negated, so Stone Cut Without Hands does not negate Great Image. However, the way it is worded, "Holder" is an older term for "you", and "you" ignoring something doesn't make sense in the current rules. Thus it should probably have errata to say "Your Heroes ignore Great Image", which is probably the closest interpretation of the ability. On the other hand, the Warriors Helmet of Salvation "Hero ignores Confusion" does nothing substantive, unless Confusion is ever reprinted to have numbers or a special ability that can target a Hero.

Michal does ignore Scorn of Michal (apparently...lol) but as has been stated, all that means is that the numbers don't affect the battle. The ability still works, as it isn't trying to target Michal.

Thank you very much for tackling today's Booster Draft Card Interaction Challenge! Your prize is an insert explaining how sites work and that playing with them is optional.

Tune in next time to watch someone explain Tartaros!

Spoiler (hover to show)

browarod · « **Reply #12 on:** May 09, 2013, 04:45:52 PM »

*throws his hands up in the air and gives up* I guess I'll never get ignore completely right. First it was cannot be ignored, now ignore itself doesn't work like I thought. /sigh

Mageduckey · « **Reply #13 on:** May 09, 2013, 05:16:06 PM »

Quote from: TimMierz on May 09, 2013, 04:44:51 PM

Tune in next time to watch someone explain Tartaros!
Spoiler (hover to show)
No one knows actually how Tartaros works, and no one has in over a decade.

Except we do - Tartaros works just like the new Protection of Jerusalem in that it only "collects" demons that its holder captures or discards by either numbers or special ability. So if the holder is blocking with a demon and loses by numbers or special ability of an opponent, the demon is discarded. If the holder uses DoU (or some other suicidal enhancement) on their demon or discards/captures a demon with their own numbers or special abilities, those demons get placed in Tartaros. We also know that Worse than the First is the most effective way of releasing demons from Tartaros.

...and if that was sarcasm about people not understanding Tartaros, I apologize for not picking up on it.

TimMierz · « **Reply #14 on:** May 10, 2013, 11:34:49 AM »

Sarcasm. But it's okay, I have a pretty terrible sense of humor.

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Author Topic: Ignoring enhancements? (Read 1541 times)

JSB23

Ignoring enhancements?

asrgimli

Re: Ignoring enhancements?

browarod

Re: Ignoring enhancements?

asrgimli

Re: Ignoring enhancements?

TimMierz

Re: Ignoring enhancements?

TimMierz

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JSB23

Re: Ignoring enhancements?

ChristianSoldier

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browarod

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JSB23

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Professoralstad

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TimMierz

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browarod

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Mageduckey

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TimMierz

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