Author Topic: Ignores and Dual-Color Characters (Read 15994 times)

Tsavong Lah · « **on:** August 29, 2008, 06:07:24 PM »

Player 1 RA's with Jacob and plays Reuben's Torn Clothes to ignore black. Can player 2 block with The Winged Leopard?

Jacob:
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: 6 / 5 • Class: None • Special Ability: May band to a silver brigade Hero, or you may play a Genesis Enhancement. • Identifiers: OT Male Human, Patriarch • Verse: Genesis 32:24 • Availability: Faith of Fathers (Set 4)

Reuben's Torn Clothes:
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Blue • Ability: 1 / 6 • Class: None • Special Ability: Negate all evil immunity. All Genesis Heroes ignore an evil brigade of your choice. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Genesis 37:29 • Availability: Faith of Fathers (Set 10)

The Winged Leopard:
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Orange/Black • Ability: 9 / 10 • Class: None • Special Ability: Discard a Persian. Immune to white brigade. May band to a Greek. • Attributes: Male Beast (Demon) Greek • Identifiers: OT Male Beast (Demon), Greece • Verse: Daniel 7:6 • Availability: Rock of Ages (Set 14)

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #1 on:** August 29, 2008, 06:11:52 PM »

No, Winged Leopord is in fact at least part black.

SirNobody · « **Reply #2 on:** August 29, 2008, 06:31:13 PM »

Hey,

I had a lengthy discussion on this general topic with Mike Berkenpass and Mark Underwood at nationals. In the end I looked in the REG and found something allong the lines of "in order to ignore a multi color character you must ignore all of it's brigades." So I opened the REG looking for that statement to post in this thread and instead found:

"A multi-colored character is ignored if any of its brigade colors are ignored."

So I'm kinda baffled. Mark, do you remember what that quote I showed you at the end of our discussion was?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly, WildCard Secretary of Defense
www.freewebs.com/redemptionne

Kor · « **Reply #3 on:** August 29, 2008, 06:34:21 PM »

Quote from: SirNobody on August 29, 2008, 06:31:13 PM

"in order to ignore a multi color character you must ignore all of it's brigades."

I think it would be great if they changed the rules to make this true.

The Schaef · « **Reply #4 on:** August 29, 2008, 06:47:14 PM »

Ignoring one color ignores all, but being immune to one color does not make you immune to the others.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #5 on:** August 29, 2008, 09:06:19 PM »

Quote from: SirNobody on August 29, 2008, 06:31:13 PM

So I'm kinda baffled. Mark, do you remember what that quote I showed you at the end of our discussion was?

I think that we talking more about immunity, and I think we found 2 apparently conflicting quotes. The first said that to be immune to a multi-colored character that you had to be immune to all of the brigades of that character. The other quote said that be immune to a multi-colored character you only had to be immune to one of their colors. Both of these quotes however were not in the existing REG, but in the potential REG (except with a better name) of the future.

However, that was at the end of Nats, and I was functioning on very little sleep by that point, so I can't be completely sure of any of that

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 30, 2008, 10:59:25 AM »

Quote from: The Schaef on August 29, 2008, 06:47:14 PM

Ignoring one color ignores all, but being immune to one color does not make you immune to the others.

So if I make a rescue with Saul Paul and my opponent blocks and plays an ignore I cant play an enhancement of a different brigade to discard the evil character?

Hedgehogman · « **Reply #7 on:** August 30, 2008, 11:18:20 AM »

This is a very good question. I asked Mike Berkenpas about this at Nats(someone rescued with a red hero, the opponent blocked with Anitiochus, the red hero played "ignores gray"), and he said that if you ignore the gray part of Antiochus, he can still play black enhancements.

I think that makes sense. The bigger question is the parent question though, ie, can you block with Antiochus at all if gray or black is being ignored right off the bat? I'm not sure on that one.

The Schaef · « **Reply #8 on:** August 30, 2008, 11:38:08 AM »

Ignored characters cannot enter battle, and a character ignored in one brigade cannot block in any.

Likewise, if you are ignoring a person of a certain brigade, cards of that brigade cannot harm your character, AND that CHARACTER cannot harm your character regardless of what brigade Enhancements he uses. He can still play Enhancements of any available brigade.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #9 on:** August 30, 2008, 12:02:29 PM »

So if the situation went like this:

RA Benjamin.
Blocked with The Winged Leopard.
My initiative, so I play Reubens Torn Clothes and ignore black.

Could my opponent then play orange enhancements to target me still?

Kor · « **Reply #10 on:** August 30, 2008, 12:44:19 PM »

No he can't play orange enhancements to target you...based on a ruling made when I asked a similar question at least.

http://cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=10627.msg158845#msg158845

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 30, 2008, 02:09:02 PM »

What if someone ignored pale green and I blocked with that orange demon that one demon (I choose to play pale green) can pale green enhancements I play target the the hero who is ignoring me?

The Schaef · « **Reply #12 on:** August 30, 2008, 02:10:23 PM »

Okay, this is now the third time the same question has been asked, and the answer is still no.

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #13 on:** August 30, 2008, 02:47:05 PM »

What about multicolor enhancements (Preaching the Truth)? Does ignoring one brigade ignore the enhancement?

The Schaef · « **Reply #14 on:** August 30, 2008, 02:56:28 PM »

Yes. Your character cannot be affected by ANY character or Enhancement bearing that brigade.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 31, 2008, 07:22:15 PM »

Quote from: The Schaef on August 30, 2008, 02:56:28 PM

Yes. Your character cannot be affected by ANY character or Enhancement bearing that brigade.

And Curse/Covenant.

SirNobody · « **Reply #16 on:** September 01, 2008, 01:29:12 PM »

Hey,

Last time we discussed ignore we decided that it basically had 4 elements:

(1) I'm immune to you
(2) You're immune to me
(3) You can't enter battle (if you are a character and not already in battle)
(4) If you are already in battle you do not stop me from rescuing a lost soul

Key: I = ignoring cards, You = ignored cards

It makes sense that ignoring one brigade of a multicolor card would be enough to get the benefit of (3) and (4). But since you aren't immune to a card unless you are immune to all of it's brigades, wouldn't you not gain the effects of (1) and (2) unless you ignore all of their brigades?

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly, WildCard Secretary of Defense
www.freewebs.com/redemptionne

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #17 on:** September 01, 2008, 01:57:52 PM »

1 and 2 are analogies. Ignore is different from Immune.

The Schaef · « **Reply #18 on:** September 01, 2008, 02:01:08 PM »

Quote from: SirNobody on September 01, 2008, 01:29:12 PM

It makes sense that ignoring one brigade of a multicolor card would be enough to get the benefit of (3) and (4). But since you aren't immune to a card unless you are immune to all of it's brigades, wouldn't you not gain the effects of (1) and (2) unless you ignore all of their brigades?

Why? If I'm ignoring gray, how can Antiochus - who is gray - enter battle?

SirNobody · « **Reply #19 on:** September 01, 2008, 02:36:35 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: Minister Polarius on September 01, 2008, 01:57:52 PM

1 and 2 are analogies. Ignore is different from Immune.

I don't think it's just an analogy. I think it actually is immunity.

Quote from: The Schaef on September 01, 2008, 02:01:08 PM

Why? If I'm ignoring gray, how can Antiochus - who is gray - enter battle?

You might want to read my post again. I was saying that the "cannot enter battle" part would keep Antiochus out of battle, but that the "they can't hurt each other" part would not work.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly, WildCard Secretary of Defense
www.freewebs.com/redemptionne

princeofthisgame · « **Reply #20 on:** September 01, 2008, 04:01:06 PM »

I would think that if the evil character is already in battle, and the ignore says "ignore one ___ brigade evil character," then the whole evil character would be ignored, but if the enhancement says "Hero ignores ____ brigade," then the alternate brigade would be effective in stopping the hero.
Jeremy

The Schaef · « **Reply #21 on:** September 01, 2008, 06:22:46 PM »

Quote from: SirNobody on September 01, 2008, 02:36:35 PM

You might want to read my post again. I was saying that the "cannot enter battle" part would keep Antiochus out of battle, but that the "they can't hurt each other" part would not work.

You're right, I read that backwards.

However, I don't remember ever describing ignore as mutual immunity + win. Can you link to the thread where the discussion ended as such so I can review?

SirNobody · « **Reply #22 on:** September 01, 2008, 07:33:45 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: The Schaef on September 01, 2008, 06:22:46 PM

However, I don't remember ever describing ignore as mutual immunity + win. Can you link to the thread where the discussion ended as such so I can review?

http://cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/index.php?topic=11557.45

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly, WildCard Secretary of Defense
www.freewebs.com/redemptionne

The Schaef · « **Reply #23 on:** September 01, 2008, 08:04:33 PM »

I noticed that the word you submitted was your own. Bryon's rephrasing of the same states:

Quote

3) protects the ignored card and ignoring cards from each other

His interest seems to be in protecting the cards from each other. Your wording limits it to the brigade only.

But thank you for reminding me that I asked several questions in that thread that were never answered to my satisfaction.

777Godspeed · « **Reply #24 on:** September 01, 2008, 11:03:49 PM »

1. Since Antiochus is Gray and Antiochus is Black, if I ignore one of those brigades pre-block Antiochus cannot enter battle, correct?

2. If during the battle phase, I ignore one of those brigades, while Antiochus is blocking, then I ignore all of him, black and gray, correct?

I'm just making sure I get this straight in my head.

Godspeed,
Mike

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Author Topic: Ignores and Dual-Color Characters (Read 15994 times)

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