Author Topic: Ignore (Read 7893 times)

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #25 on:** May 27, 2010, 10:03:27 AM »

Quote from: Bryon on May 27, 2010, 10:00:29 AM

Don't think of it as "may not enter battle." Think of it as "protect the field of battle from having this type of character enter it." Then it all makes sense.

I like this description. This way the "field of battle" is the target. And assumedly, this part of the ignore definition could come from other sources than characters (like HHI) right? In other words, only characters ignore characters, but artifacts can protect the field of battle, right?

The Schaef · « **Reply #26 on:** May 27, 2010, 10:16:45 AM »

Stop with the "sources" already.

"Characters ignore characters" means that "characters are the targets of the ignore effects". It means there's no such thing as a Lost Soul "ignoring" a Fortress. That's all it means.

Bryon · « **Reply #27 on:** May 27, 2010, 10:22:33 AM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on May 27, 2010, 10:03:27 AM

only characters ignore characters, but artifacts can protect the field of battle, right?

That's how I understand it.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #28 on:** May 27, 2010, 10:24:10 AM »

That makes sense, but still not as much sense as it could and should IMO.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #29 on:** May 27, 2010, 10:55:43 AM »

Quote from: The Schaef on May 27, 2010, 10:16:45 AM

"characters are the targets of the ignore effects"

This is not accurate. One of the "ignore effects" is protecting the field of battle from "ignored characters". And the "target" of that "ignore effect" is the "field of battle". So characters are NOT the only target of "ignore effects".

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #30 on:** May 27, 2010, 11:22:41 AM »

Quote from: Bryon on May 27, 2010, 10:00:29 AM

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on May 26, 2010, 08:28:17 PM
So cards like Large Tree technically shouldn't even work, because its a Cannot be Ignored ability, which is a protect,
Wrong. "Cannot be ignored" is NOT a protect. Cannot be ignored is its own separate ability, like CBN:
In a FBTN battle, a CBN ability works IN SPITE of the FBTN status.
In a "Ignore Gold evil characters" battle, a CBIgnored character can block IN SPITE of the Ignore status.

I realize thats how it probably DOES work, but I'm looking at the situation how a tournament host would if this was brought up in a game. There is no distinction in the REG about cannot be ignored, so that is how I'd interpret it based on what the REG tells me.

Please tell me, if I had not been a part of these discussions, and I had to make a ruling in a tournament, How would I know, based on the REG, that CBIgnored is not a protect ability?

*EDIT*

Quote from: The Schaef on May 27, 2010, 07:16:00 AM

It probably needs to be addressed but it's not a massive epidemic that has brought the entire game grinding to a halt.

When did I ever say it was?

The Schaef · « **Reply #31 on:** May 27, 2010, 12:24:51 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on May 27, 2010, 10:55:43 AM

This is not accurate. One of the "ignore effects" is protecting the field of battle from "ignored characters". And the "target" of that "ignore effect" is the "field of battle". So characters are NOT the only target of "ignore effects".

I'm not talking about the restriction on entering the Field of Battle, which I will point out is still about characters. The POINT is that you kept going back to this "only characters can ignore" mantra and tried to turn it into everything from source cards to transferred abilities to I don't know what, and that is NOT WHAT THE RULE WAS SAYING.

Characters are the target of the effects to the exclusion of other card types. Characters don't ignore Fortresses and Fortresses don't ignore Lost Souls and Lost Souls don't ignore Dominants.

You would have saved yourself a lot of confusion if you had just listened to that explanation one time.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #32 on:** May 27, 2010, 01:48:13 PM »

Quote from: The Schaef on May 27, 2010, 12:24:51 PM

You would have saved yourself a lot of confusion if you had just listened to that explanation one time.

Actually Bryon saved me a lot of confusion by coming up with something new that actually made sense. He actually understood that the missing piece of the puzzle was to find what exactly was keeping those banding heroes out of battle. And he came up with the great idea that it was the "field of battle" itself. I've never heard of the "field of battle" being protected from anything before, but it does make sense now that I think about it.

I appreciate Bryon's willingness to help resolve an admittedly complicated issue, and to listen to the people who were confused by it enough to respond in a way that made sense with the way that THEY were looking at it. Communicating to people who you disagree with in a way that comes from THEIR perspective, so that they can understand it better, is an art, that few have mastered.

The Schaef · « **Reply #33 on:** May 27, 2010, 02:53:06 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on May 27, 2010, 01:48:13 PM

I appreciate Bryon's willingness to help resolve an admittedly complicated issue, and to listen to the people who were confused by it enough to respond in a way that made sense with the way that THEY were looking at it. Communicating to people who you disagree with in a way that comes from THEIR perspective, so that they can understand it better, is an art, that few have mastered.

Bryon's answer mentioned nothing about a "source", said nothing about "transferring abilities" and did not say anyone or anything was "doing the ignoring", and you asked him none of the questions that you asked me. Zero. So if I'm going to have any effectiveness at resolving these issues at all, I'm going to have to understand what constitutes communicating "in a way that comes from their perspective", when he did not use any of the same language, did not field any of the same questions, and described the ability in a totally different way from how you were asking and is still "their perspective". I am completely lost on this issue.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #34 on:** May 27, 2010, 03:35:35 PM »

Quote from: Bryon on May 27, 2010, 10:00:29 AM

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on May 26, 2010, 08:28:17 PM
The "may not enter battle" section apparently has NO targets...
Don't think of it as "may not enter battle." Think of it as "protect the field of battle from having this type of character enter it." Then it all makes sense.

So this applies to ALL ignores, correct? Not just HHI?

The Schaef · « **Reply #35 on:** May 27, 2010, 03:44:11 PM »

Essentially, yes.

The formula for the ability is "Protect (effect) X (target) from Y (condition) [while Z (possible second condition)]

Pretend the capacity to enter the field of battle is your "target". The ignored character is the condition. If you have an ignoring character, that is another condition for the "protection".

So:
Protect the capacity to enter the Field of Battle from X Brigade while Jake is in battle.
or:
Protect the capacity to enter the Field of Battle from Banding Heroes.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #36 on:** May 27, 2010, 04:49:30 PM »

Quote from: The Schaef on May 27, 2010, 03:44:11 PM

Essentially, yes.

The formula for the ability is "Protect (effect) X (target) from Y (condition) [while Z (possible second condition)]

Pretend the capacity to enter the field of battle is your "target". The ignored character is the condition. If you have an ignoring character, that is another condition for the "protection".

So:
Protect the capacity to enter the Field of Battle from X Brigade while Jake is in battle.
or:
Protect the capacity to enter the Field of Battle from Banding Heroes.

So would Transfiguration still work ? I say this because the battle field is protecting against it not preventing the card.

The Schaef · « **Reply #37 on:** May 27, 2010, 05:34:19 PM »

Ignore keeps CHARACTERS out of battle. Otherwise, you could never play any Enhancement of an ignored brigade.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #38 on:** May 27, 2010, 06:13:50 PM »

Quote from: The Schaef on May 27, 2010, 05:34:19 PM

Ignore keeps CHARACTERS out of battle. Otherwise, you could never play any Enhancement of an ignored brigade.

Oh yeah that's right. So Elijah could not enter battle even though Transfig cannot be negated? I have always played that he could enter battle but then elijah is ignored.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #39 on:** May 27, 2010, 10:13:41 PM »

Quote from: TheHobbit13 on May 27, 2010, 06:13:50 PM

I have always played that he could enter battle but then elijah is ignored.

According to this new understanding of the "field of battle" being protected from banding heroes entering it, Elijah would not be able to enter. Similarly, if Joshua the HP played Jehoida's Strength, any banding heroes would not enter then either.

The Schaef · « **Reply #40 on:** May 27, 2010, 11:38:56 PM »

Quote

If a character is ignored, it can neither voluntarily nor forcibly enter the Field of Battle

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #41 on:** May 28, 2010, 04:48:00 PM »

Quote from: The Schaef on May 27, 2010, 11:38:56 PM

Quote
If a character is ignored, it can neither voluntarily nor forcibly enter the Field of Battle

If HHI is a prevent it can, but now we have to go and change the rules.

The Schaef · « **Reply #42 on:** May 28, 2010, 05:32:03 PM »

I'm not following you.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #43 on:** May 30, 2010, 11:10:36 AM »

Quote from: The Schaef on May 28, 2010, 05:32:03 PM

I'm not following you.

Transfiguration cannot be Interrupted prevented or negated so you can band in moses and elijah into battle even if HHI is up. However Elijah is ignored in battle because he is a banding card.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #44 on:** May 30, 2010, 11:17:42 AM »

Quote from: TheHobbit13 on May 30, 2010, 11:10:36 AM

However Elijah is ignored in battle because he is a banding card.

It is because he is a banding card that he cannot enter battle.

Bryon · « **Reply #45 on:** May 30, 2010, 11:22:15 AM »

With HHI up, Elijah is ignored so he can't enter battle. Transfig bands in Moses, but not Elijah. It has been that way since Patriarchs released.

The last time you could add a banding hero to a battle while HHI was active was the nationals where a 15 Elders of Jerusalem deck went undefeated in Type 2. Back then, HHI was ruled a prevent only, which didn't keep anyone out of battle. When it was ruled a prevent AND an ignore, then it keeps banding heroes out of battle no matter how they try to sneak into it.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #46 on:** May 30, 2010, 02:47:55 PM »

Quote from: Bryon on May 30, 2010, 11:22:15 AM

With HHI up, Elijah is ignored so he can't enter battle. Transfig bands in Moses, but not Elijah. It has been that way since Patriarchs released.

The last time you could add a banding hero to a battle while HHI was active was the nationals where a 15 Elders of Jerusalem deck went undefeated in Type 2. Back then, HHI was ruled a prevent only, which didn't keep anyone out of battle. When it was ruled a prevent AND an ignore, then it keeps banding heroes out of battle no matter how they try to sneak into it.

Okay thanks.

Master_Chi · « **Reply #47 on:** July 05, 2010, 01:16:09 PM »

Quote from: Bryon on May 30, 2010, 11:22:15 AM

With HHI up, Elijah is ignored so he can't enter battle. Transfig bands in Moses, but not Elijah. It has been that way since Patriarchs released.

The last time you could add a banding hero to a battle while HHI was active was the nationals where a 15 Elders of Jerusalem deck went undefeated in Type 2. Back then, HHI was ruled a prevent only, which didn't keep anyone out of battle. When it was ruled a prevent AND an ignore, then it keeps banding heroes out of battle no matter how they try to sneak into it.

So if I played Spiritual Warfare on Angel at Jerusalem, then all human EC's currently in battle must leave the FOB and return to territory? Is the opponent still allowed to play enhancements?

Also, on one of the ruling clarification cards (Priests, I think) it says that "Ignore" abilities are "ongoing". Does this mean that once a character uses an enhancement that makes them "ignore" a character type (i.e. Giants, Syrians, humans, etc.) or brigades, that the character using the ignore enhancement RETAINS the ability to ignore said conditions?

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #48 on:** July 05, 2010, 01:22:46 PM »

Quote from: Master_Chi on July 05, 2010, 01:16:09 PM

So if I played Spiritual Warfare on Angel at Jerusalem, then all human EC's currently in battle must leave the FOB and return to territory? Is the opponent still allowed to play enhancements?

The characters that are already in battle do not have to leave, but no more can enter. You can still interrupt or negate the ignore with an enhancement (unless it is CBN).

Quote from: Master_Chi on July 05, 2010, 01:16:09 PM

Also, on one of the ruling clarification cards (Priests, I think) it says that "Ignore" abilities are "ongoing". Does this mean that once a character uses an enhancement that makes them "ignore" a character type (i.e. Giants, Syrians, humans, etc.) or brigades, that the character using the ignore enhancement RETAINS the ability to ignore said conditions?

Special abilities activated in battle are only in effect until the end of battle, unless they specify otherwise. The ignore will not be in effect on your next turn unless the SA specifies that the effect lasts "while this character is in play" or something to that effect.

Master_Chi · « **Reply #49 on:** July 05, 2010, 01:26:44 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on July 05, 2010, 01:22:46 PM

Quote from: Master_Chi on July 05, 2010, 01:16:09 PM
So if I played Spiritual Warfare on Angel at Jerusalem, then all human EC's currently in battle must leave the FOB and return to territory? Is the opponent still allowed to play enhancements?

The characters that are already in battle do not have to leave, but no more can enter. You can still interrupt or negate the ignore with an enhancement (unless it is CBN).

So if the EC in battle is being ignored, he can't do anything to my Hero? Does this mean that my Hero essentially "bypasses" the EC and still grants me a LS?

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Author Topic: Ignore (Read 7893 times)

The Schaef

Lamborghini_diablo

The Schaef

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TheHobbit13

The Schaef

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The Schaef

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