Author Topic: "Banding Ability?" (Read 5604 times)

Lamborghini_diablo · « **on:** September 07, 2008, 04:54:54 PM »

Ok, heres my question... What happens if Captian of the Host is blocked by Zimri, son of Salu? Does Captian negate all of his ability, all but the banding, or can he not negate any of it because its two abilities in one sentence? Isnt Zimri's ability a "Banding" ability?

Interrupt and prevent all special abilities except banding. Fight by the numbers.

Interrupt Wall of Protection. May band to a female Evil Character of any brigade except brown to decrease a Hero in play by 0/6.

Gabe · « **Reply #1 on:** September 07, 2008, 05:02:10 PM »

Zimri cannot interrupt WoP or decrease a Hero if he's blocking an active CotH. He may still band to a female that isn't brown.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #2 on:** September 07, 2008, 05:04:25 PM »

So... you can negate just a part of a sentence? It seems to me that the WHOLE ability would be considered a banding ability, because its "you may band to do..."

Idk, I just find it strange being able to negate half of an ability. I understand the interrupting WoP being negated, because thats its own ability.

TimMierz · « **Reply #3 on:** September 07, 2008, 05:08:34 PM »

They're distinct abilities, even if they're in the same sentence.

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #4 on:** September 07, 2008, 05:09:30 PM »

Sort of like the interrupt, draw 3 (or 2), play next on so many cards.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #5 on:** September 07, 2008, 05:12:01 PM »

Hmm, interesting.

Now, heres another example.

Benjamin is blocked by Twelve Fingered Giant. He plays Numerous as the stars, since Genesis enhs on him CBN anyways, and brings Jacob into battle. Can jacob then use his play next ability, or is his whole SA negated because its "play next OR band?"

Another example:

Wasting Disease does not prevent JUST the "Play Next" on Reach, it prevents ALL of it. Same for Jake. How is this there are seperate abilities in the same sentence?

TimMierz · « **Reply #6 on:** September 07, 2008, 05:14:37 PM »

Jacob can play next against 12FG. Reach can still let you interrupt and draw if Wasting Disease is active.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #7 on:** September 07, 2008, 05:15:35 PM »

Really? I've only seen Wasting Disease played where it prevents the entire ability on cards like that.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #8 on:** September 07, 2008, 05:31:56 PM »

Quote from: TimMierz on September 07, 2008, 05:14:37 PM

Jacob can play next against 12FG. Reach can still let you interrupt and draw if Wasting Disease is active.

Quote

Type: Curse • Brigade: Brown • Ability: 0 / 6 • Class: None • Special Ability: Prevent all good abilities that allow a player to play an Enhancement. • Identifiers: OT, Disease • Verse: Deuteronomy 28:22 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Uncommon)

It prevents the WHOLE ability. Reach vs WD = Reach is prevented. To do just the p next it'd have to be worded like "Prevent play next abilities"

Gabe · « **Reply #9 on:** September 07, 2008, 05:47:44 PM »

Reach is three separate abilities, even if it is one sentence. Everything except the play next works against WD.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #10 on:** September 07, 2008, 05:50:32 PM »

Quote from: BrianGabe on September 07, 2008, 05:47:44 PM

Reach is three separate abilities, even if it is one sentence. Everything except the play next works against WD.

Thats not what got ruled at nationals in 2007 (yeah I know its 2 nationals ago but I have not seen ANY ruling that might suggest any difference)

Gabe · « **Reply #11 on:** September 07, 2008, 07:01:06 PM »

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on September 07, 2008, 05:50:32 PM

Thats not what got ruled at nationals in 2007 (yeah I know its 2 nationals ago but I have not seen ANY ruling that might suggest any difference)

It's a shame that someone had it ruled wrong in their game at Nationals 07. I hope it didn't have much impact on the game.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #12 on:** September 07, 2008, 07:06:04 PM »

Hmmm... hard to say who's right at this point unless evidence is brought out from the REG or Rulebook....

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #13 on:** September 07, 2008, 07:48:26 PM »

Quote from: BrianGabe on September 07, 2008, 05:47:44 PM

Reach is three separate abilities, even if it is one sentence. Everything except the play next works against WD.

Although WD's ability is confusing.

The Schaef · « **Reply #14 on:** September 07, 2008, 09:47:37 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on September 07, 2008, 05:04:25 PM

So... you can negate just a part of a sentence? It seems to me that the WHOLE ability would be considered a banding ability, because its "you may band to do..."

No, it is two separate abilities, the second one requires the first to be done. You can band, but then the second part is negated. If it was the other way around, "you may decrease someone to band to a guy", then neither would happen because you cannot fulfill the required first part to allow the second.

As for Wasting Disease, "prevent good abilities that allow a player to play an Enhancement".

Interrupt does not fit that description. Draw does not fit that description. Play next fits that description, and so is prevented. What is confusing about that?

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #15 on:** September 07, 2008, 10:00:29 PM »

I've ALWAYS seen it played where it prevents the entire ability.

SirNobody · « **Reply #16 on:** September 07, 2008, 10:37:10 PM »

Hey,

Waisting Disease vs. Reach of Desperation is a clear issue. Waisting disease prevents play next abilities not cards with play next abilities. If it were the latter it would prevent all three abilities on Reach of Desperation since it only prevents play next abilities the draw and interrupt part of the ability still work.

Answer to Prayer and Jacob have both banding and play an enhancement abilities but the abilities are mutually exclusive. So they are both "banding cards" and "play an enhancement cards" (similar to the way a multicolor enhancement is a crimson enhancement and a black enhancement). But if you prevent the banding ability the play an enhancement ability can still be used.

Zimri and cost benefit abilities are tricky. My first reaction would be that the benefit is the ability and the cost isn't an ability. So Captian would prevent Zimri but if Zimri were the other way arround (decrease to band) then both parts would work with Captain in battle. I'm not sure that first reaction is best though.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly, WildCard Secretary of Defense
www.freewebs.com/redemptionne

The Schaef · « **Reply #17 on:** September 07, 2008, 10:55:22 PM »

The cost and the benefit are both an ability. There's no other way to describe it. Do ability A to do ability B. Requirements must be met to allow beneficial actions, I think we agree on that. Sometimes those requirements are conditional statements, sometimes they are other abilities to be carried out. "All your Heroes in play are Genesis Heroes" is not an ability but a status or a condition to check. "Band to an Evil Character" is not a condition to check, it is an ability to carry out.

The alternative would be to say if you played that card and I played Cymbals of the Levites (Negate the special ability on an evil card in play.), only the decrease would be negated. I think you would agree that both the decrease and the band should be negated.

The first ability must be carried out if possible; if it is not carried out in its entirety, the second ability cannot be used. The second ability, if allowed, can be carried out as much as the circumstances will allow (e.g. Jephthah can discard one EC, Zeal can discard one EC). So the first ability, the band, can be carried out, allowing the second, but it is prevented so it fizzles and does nothing else.

SirNobody · « **Reply #18 on:** September 08, 2008, 12:13:05 AM »

Hey,

The more I think about it the more I agree that the cost is a separate ability.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly, WildCard Secretary of Defense
www.freewebs.com/redemptionne

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Author Topic: "Banding Ability?" (Read 5604 times)

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo

TheHobbit13

The Schaef

Lamborghini_diablo

The Schaef