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Is there somewhere in the rules that requires you to ask your opponent if they want to play a dominant before you play a set aside?
I believe the rule is you don't have to ask, but you cannot deny your opponent a chance to play a card by being physically faster than him.
Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on August 14, 2010, 05:49:13 PMI believe the rule is you don't have to ask, but you cannot deny your opponent a chance to play a card by being physically faster than him. In general I wait a second or two just to be sure. If it is something that commonly gets a dominant response, I do sometimes ask as well. For example if I activate Gifts of the Magi with Hur sitting in my territory, I usually ask if my opponent wants to play Destruction of Nehustan. I don't have to, I could just wait 1-2 seconds and go, but I think asking is nice.
Quote from: Prof Underwood on August 14, 2010, 05:59:29 PMQuote from: Rawrlolsauce! on August 14, 2010, 05:49:13 PMI believe the rule is you don't have to ask, but you cannot deny your opponent a chance to play a card by being physically faster than him. In general I wait a second or two just to be sure. If it is something that commonly gets a dominant response, I do sometimes ask as well. For example if I activate Gifts of the Magi with Hur sitting in my territory, I usually ask if my opponent wants to play Destruction of Nehustan. I don't have to, I could just wait 1-2 seconds and go, but I think asking is nice.I second this motion since it would then become a game based on who had the quickest reflexes, not just good strategy.
If it's true that you can't deny your opponent a chance to play a dominant because you're faster than him. Then he could just wait for you to put down your card, then say "oh, you went faster than me, I get to play a dominant."
Please show me somewhere in the rule book, where it says that there is no playing cards to fast. That it's illegal for you to play a card in your territory to fast for your opponent.
From what I know, there is no "initiative" in territory. I don't have to ask you if its my initiative to put down a hero from my hand. I don't have to ask for initiative from my opponent before activating an artifact.
So what you're saying is, your opponent could just sit there, you wait 30 seconds, then play your set aside, he decides he doesn't like what thats going to do. He can just say "you cant deny me a chance to play my dominant!" "You moved to fast!"
Can we get a ruling from Bryon or another official judge please?
Today I was making a rescue, they block and said "my initiative" and instantly threw down Joseph in prison. I wanted to aotl him so I put it down and he said I still couldn't get the soul, even though I was gonna use the dom before the enhancement. What should have happened there
Quote from: Eric the Wolfe on August 15, 2010, 12:00:54 AMIf it's true that you can't deny your opponent a chance to play a dominant because you're faster than him. Then he could just wait for you to put down your card, then say "oh, you went faster than me, I get to play a dominant." No. That is a scenario where your action will affect your opponent's action. That is totally different: he was given a chance and did not use it. Once that chance is up, too bad. He played it wrong.Quote from: Eric the Wolfe on August 15, 2010, 12:00:54 AMPlease show me somewhere in the rule book, where it says that there is no playing cards to fast. That it's illegal for you to play a card in your territory to fast for your opponent.No thank you. Mostly because one doesn't exist.Quote from: Eric the Wolfe on August 15, 2010, 12:00:54 AMFrom what I know, there is no "initiative" in territory. I don't have to ask you if its my initiative to put down a hero from my hand. I don't have to ask for initiative from my opponent before activating an artifact.There is no initiative, but that isn't totally true. I can't draw 3 cards and throw down a hero the second I see I have one, my opponent must have a chance to play a dom (AKA Mayhem).Quote from: Eric the Wolfe on August 15, 2010, 12:00:54 AMSo what you're saying is, your opponent could just sit there, you wait 30 seconds, then play your set aside, he decides he doesn't like what thats going to do. He can just say "you cant deny me a chance to play my dominant!" "You moved to fast!"No. Like I said above, that is totally different. In that scenario your opponent was given a chance to play a dominant but chose not to. Once you play your set aside, its too late. He was given his chance. This 'too fast' idea is simply to stop slap jack. Quote from: Eric the Wolfe on August 15, 2010, 12:00:54 AMCan we get a ruling from Bryon or another official judge please?This was discussed a while back, I know SirNobody gave a fairly definite answer. Go look for the thread.
From what I know, there is no "initiative" in territory. I don't have to ask you if its my initiative to put down a hero from my hand. I don't have to ask for initiative from my opponent before activating an artifact. So what you're saying is, your opponent could just sit there, you wait 30 seconds, then play your set aside, he decides he doesn't like what thats going to do. He can just say "you cant deny me a chance to play my dominant!" "You moved to fast!" Can we get a ruling from Bryon or another official judge please?
As I said above, that what happened in our game, except it wasn't 30, more like 4-5. I pulled my hero out of kerith Ravine, and then played the set aside. I was in no hurry because I didn't know he had CM. But again, he claimed I moved to fast and that I didn't give him a chance.
Quote from: Eric the Wolfe on August 15, 2010, 12:32:59 AMI would actually like to here a ruling from Bryon, no offense to Sir Nobody. I play at Bryon's tournaments and slapjack situations have come up and there was never a ruling like this.Sir Nobody is an elder just like Byron. So am I. MKC, Sauce, and RR are all 3 REPs. Everyone in this thread has agreed that your understanding is incorrect. At this point, the answer should be obvious, and you don't need Bryon to post here as well. You're welcome to talk to him about it at the next tournament when you see him, but as far as this thread is concerned, this issue should be closed.
I would actually like to here a ruling from Bryon, no offense to Sir Nobody. I play at Bryon's tournaments and slapjack situations have come up and there was never a ruling like this.
But if this had happened in a face-to-face tournament, and I was the Judge making the decision, I'd probably rule in Eric's favor because Prof has a reputation of being a very deliberate player that often doesn't act as quickly as he can/should.
Hey,You don't have to ask for initiative in battle and you don't have to ask for initiative between performing actions during your prep phase. But you do have to give your opponent time to respond to either if they want to (just like Munchkin approximately 2.6 seconds should be allowed for the player to respond ). This is exactly why I don't do the "my initiative" thing in battle, because if you do it in battle then you really should be doing it between every action you take during your prep and discard phase as well.Ultimately every time someone makes a claim that their opponent played too quickly it's going to turn into a he said/she said situation and the Judge will have to make a judgment call. But when both players are aware of this rule it is very rare to see a dispute about it come up.Tschow,Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
The problem that I see with this idea is that it is unclear. If you don't ask for initiative in battle or you don't ask if the opponent wants to play a dominant before every single card you play outside of battle, how can you determine what giving them a chance to play a dominant was? I have often been playing and been surprised by an opponent's playing of a card before I was mentally able to anticipate that they were going to do that. I'll then realize that I could have stopped that if I had only played one of my dominants. Were they playing too fast or was it just that I was not anticipating their strategy until I saw what they played?
While the 2.6 seconds comment was kinda a joke, it's actually a pretty good estimate. If you wait 2.6 seconds that should be enough time for your opponent to identify the situation.
And in this case, the hero was certainly NOT in the territory for 2.6 seconds before the set aside was played (at least not on my side of the RTS screen).
The fact that this is an RTS dispute is the relevant fact here.
