Author Topic: Herod Questions (Read 2783 times)

Professoralstad · « **on:** December 14, 2009, 02:39:37 PM »

I don't know why someone would want to do this (I'll leave that to the combo junkies if it works), but could a converted Herod Agrippa II capture himself if he played a card like Stillness to withdraw? Some heroes do technically capture themselves (Servant Girl, Recruiting Officer, War Officer) so it isn't unprecedented.

Herod Agrippa II
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Gold • Ability: None • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: Negate protect abilities on Fortresses. If a Hero withdraws from battle, you may capture it. May band to a Sadducee. Cannot be negated. • Attributes: Jewish King • Identifiers: NT Male Human, King (Judah) • Verse: Acts 25:23 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs ()

Also, I'm sure this has been discussed before, but I'm just wondering: Are Jewish Kings Kings of Judah? I would guess not, but I couldn't remember for sure.

TimMierz · « **Reply #1 on:** December 14, 2009, 02:42:00 PM »

~~It sounds like HAII would definitely capture a Hero withdrawing from Stillness. I can't see how it wouldn't.~~

And HAII's entry you've pasted there says he's both a Jewish King and a King of Judah.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #2 on:** December 14, 2009, 02:47:10 PM »

Quote from: TimMierz on December 14, 2009, 02:42:00 PM

And HAII's entry you've pasted there says he's both a Jewish King and a King of Judah.

Wow, I can't believe I missed that. If the Herods are considered Judean Kings, then that must be a recent change, as the REG doesn't mention them in the category. If they are, then I'm so building a Herods/Gates of Jerusalem deck.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #3 on:** December 14, 2009, 02:49:23 PM »

Actually, I don't think it works.

Quote from: REG - Convert - Default Conditions

If an Evil Character is converted to a Hero, it’s special ability works as long as it does not harm Heroes

TimMierz · « **Reply #4 on:** December 14, 2009, 02:54:05 PM »

Oh, I missed a huge part of the first question. Disregard that response.

Quote

If an Evil Character is converted to a Hero, it’s special ability works as long as it does not harm Heroes.

Okay, what's the definition of harm? The REG says "See also Negative Effect," the entry of which says:

Quote

A negative effect is any effect from cards not of the same alignment (i.e., good, evil, or neutral) targeting a character.

A Hero can never harm a Hero. The REG's SA conversion rule is useless, and has been for some time (and I've been harping on it from time to time, and nothing ever happens with it).

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #5 on:** December 14, 2009, 02:56:36 PM »

I think the determining factor is whether it is harming Heroes while an EC, otherwise all Evil SA's would convert since they'd all be Heroes and therefore unable to harm Heroes.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #6 on:** December 14, 2009, 02:57:51 PM »

I thought the defenition we were using now was it converts if it doesn't do something a hero normally wouldn't.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #7 on:** December 14, 2009, 02:59:39 PM »

That's a completely ancient definition.

TimMierz · « **Reply #8 on:** December 14, 2009, 04:07:55 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on December 14, 2009, 02:56:36 PM

I think the determining factor is whether it is harming Heroes while an EC

That would then be any evil special ability that targets a Hero at all.

Job's Wife includes Heroes as one of its targets. Does that mean Job's Wife's ability doesn't convert?

Does King Asnappar's "You may capture an Egyptian" ability target a Hero? It might, it might not, depends on the situation and what characters are in play. If you convert Asnappar, can he capture an evil Egyptian? Does he keep the ability but Heroes are protected from it?

Master KChief · « **Reply #9 on:** December 14, 2009, 05:53:49 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on December 14, 2009, 02:47:10 PM

Quote from: TimMierz on December 14, 2009, 02:42:00 PM
And HAII's entry you've pasted there says he's both a Jewish King and a King of Judah.

Wow, I can't believe I missed that. If the Herods are considered Judean Kings, then that must be a recent change, as the REG doesn't mention them in the category. If they are, then I'm so building a Herods/Gates of Jerusalem deck.

you do realize agrippa II negates gates of jerusalem, right?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #10 on:** December 14, 2009, 06:17:55 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on December 14, 2009, 05:53:49 PM

you do realize agrippa II negates gates of jerusalem, right?

When he's in battle, yes he does. But Gates wouldn't help him when he's there anyway. When he's in territory, Gates works just fine. Also, Gates would make Herod the Great essentially another 12FG, and who couldn't use another one of those.

Master KChief · « **Reply #11 on:** December 14, 2009, 06:21:50 PM »

only agrippa II is listed as a jewish king that is also a herod.

also, agrippa II stops gates from allowing you to draw a card.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #12 on:** December 14, 2009, 06:33:59 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on December 14, 2009, 06:21:50 PM

only agrippa II is listed as a jewish king that is also a herod.

I was operating under the assumption that if one Herod was considered a Judean King, then they all would be considered as such.

Quote

also, agrippa II stops gates from allowing you to draw a card.

False. Drawing a card is not a protect ability. You've just been Prof'd (fine, that sounds ridiculous. You've just been lectured? No. Schooled? Nah. I give up).

Master KChief · « **Reply #13 on:** December 14, 2009, 06:44:55 PM »

d'oh.

browarod · « **Reply #14 on:** December 14, 2009, 06:46:27 PM »

I forget who I was playing, but I was using purple and Herods, and my opponent said that it was good I used Herods since they couldn't use my own EC's against me when I RA'd with King David. Dunno if that helps, but that's the way I've always seen it (as all being "kings").

EDIT: Actually, I think they were using Herods, too, so they couldn't really use hardly any EC's to block David.

Master KChief · « **Reply #15 on:** December 14, 2009, 06:49:19 PM »

well yes, herods are royalty obviously, but are they also judean kings. i somehow think this will be ruled as OT judean kings/queens only.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #16 on:** December 14, 2009, 07:51:40 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on December 14, 2009, 06:49:19 PM

well yes, herods are royalty obviously, but are they also judean kings. i somehow think this will be ruled as OT judean kings/queens only.

Sadly, I believe this will be the case as well.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #17 on:** December 15, 2009, 12:12:44 AM »

Quote

That would then be any evil special ability that targets a Hero at all.

Job's Wife includes Heroes as one of its targets. Does that mean Job's Wife's ability doesn't convert?

Does King Asnappar's "You may capture an Egyptian" ability target a Hero? It might, it might not, depends on the situation and what characters are in play. If you convert Asnappar, can he capture an evil Egyptian? Does he keep the ability but Heroes are protected from it?

Not so. Asnappar doesn't target Heroes, he targets Egyptians. Egyptian Warden targets Heroes.

It's not a question of whether the ability may or may not target a Hero at some point, but whether it specifically singles Heroes out. EC's targeting a King of Israel would convert, EC's targeting David would convert, but EC's targeting a Good King would not Convert.

*EDIT* And the Herods were kinds of Judea, not Judah.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #18 on:** December 15, 2009, 12:17:49 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on December 15, 2009, 12:12:44 AM

*EDIT* And the Herods were kinds of Judea, not Judah.

That's what I've always thought, but that extra identifier in the REG entry for HAII is a bit confusing.

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Author Topic: Herod Questions (Read 2783 times)

browarod