Author Topic: Heavy Taxes: When does it count the cards in your hand? (Read 2810 times)

Ken4Christ4ever · « **on:** August 09, 2009, 11:31:23 PM »

When does the "X" count how many cards you have in your hand - before or after you draw?

Heavy Taxes
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Grey • Ability: 0 / X • Class: None • Special Ability: Opponent must discard a card from hand and you may draw a card. If used by an emperor, do this twice and end the battle. • Identifiers: NT, Depicts a Weapon, X = number of cards in your hand • Verse: Romans 13:7 • Availability: Faith of Fathers (Set 10)

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #1 on:** August 09, 2009, 11:35:49 PM »

The REG says "X" is static (determined at the time it's played) whereas "*" is dynamic. I don't know that that's correct, since I think I've seen heavy taxes ruled the other way.

Or maybe it's "X" in the SA is static, whereas "X" or "*" in the numbers is dynamic?

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #2 on:** August 09, 2009, 11:38:02 PM »

I would think that it is after, when initiative is checked (unless the battle ended).

redemption99 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 09, 2009, 11:41:30 PM »

i would assume after you have drawn.

happyjosiah · « **Reply #4 on:** August 10, 2009, 08:43:51 AM »

This question applies to other X things as well though when there is an X in the numbers. If the thing x is based on changes during battle, do the numbers change as well?

Gabe · « **Reply #5 on:** August 10, 2009, 08:57:31 AM »

Both Heavy Taxes and Zebulun are supposed to be dynamic. They can change as the # of cards in your hand change. I'm not entirely sure the rules support that as they're currently written.

adamfincher · « **Reply #6 on:** August 10, 2009, 09:16:44 AM »

i agree with gabe.

frisian9 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 10, 2009, 07:56:47 PM »

Because this one ends the battle, the interpretation of "X" means how many cards you had AT THE TIME it was activated.

I am very curious about the statement regarding "*" versus "X". I also have been playing as though they are both dynamic. Is there a problem with that? If not, is it easier to allow them both to mean the same thing?

~~Where did the reference to "*" and "X" come from? Can you help me on that in the event it needs to be fixed or quoted as support?~~
*edit*
Mike

frisian9 · « **Reply #8 on:** August 10, 2009, 07:58:13 PM »

Sorry - didn't answer the obvious question. The "X" is at the point the card completes its ability - so after the draw. Zebulun is the same way (too bad - it would be nice to go with one smaller "X" value, huh?)

Mike

frisian9 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 10, 2009, 08:05:51 PM »

Found the quote in the REG under "Variable (X/X)". The problem is that it sort of contradicts itself in the two sections - the problem is that "X" is used in the ability (or numbers) area of the card when * is defined to be used there. In short, a card that uses an "X" for an ability number should really be a "*" to be consistent with the REG.

I think the proper solution would be to allow the fact that cards are using "X" for ability numbers and simply fix the REG. Perhaps it is easier to equate them. It does change the way they play and are interpretted. It also is evident Zebulun was being played contrary to the REG (

)

Mike

General Description

Cards with an asterisk “*” or the letter “x” printed on the card are fall into this category. The “*” or “x” represent variable values or numbers that are defined either in the special ability or the identifier portion of the card. The values they represent may be determined by a state of the game (which may change during the card’s use) or by the holder.

How to Play

Cards that describe variable values of the strength and stamina values or abilities (*/*) use an asterisk. Cards that describe a variable number of targets use the letter “x” to represent the value in the special ability. Both of the definitions that determine the value of the “*” or “x” are described on the card itself. The value of “*” may be dynamic and change as long as the card remains in the game. The value of “x” is static and should be determined at the time the special ability that contains it is activated.

ejberkenpas22 · « **Reply #10 on:** August 10, 2009, 08:46:07 PM »

so going back to the original question...Would you count the numbers of heavy taxes before of after the draw? And this means Zebulen is dynamic? Or was he ruled specially to be static?

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #11 on:** August 10, 2009, 08:56:51 PM »

They are both dynamic.

frisian9 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 10, 2009, 09:00:22 PM »

They are not both dynamic by the current REG. My point is that the REG is somewhat murky now that more "X" cards are out and needs to be updated.

Heavy Taxes is counted after the ability completes - in other words, after you draw. Same as with Zebulun.

Mike

ejberkenpas22 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 10, 2009, 09:04:32 PM »

Are you sure there isn't a ruling floating around about Zebulen being ruled whether consistent or not to have a static ability? Because that is what I heard...I will search for the thread i heard it in.

ejberkenpas22 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 10, 2009, 09:11:51 PM »

ok the thread wasn't strong proof...it was Olijar saying he heard that there was a ruling to make Zeb's ability static so as to avoid brokenness.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #15 on:** August 10, 2009, 10:26:50 PM »

Lol. I carry quite a bit of weight my friend.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #16 on:** August 10, 2009, 10:29:20 PM »

I weigh about 230 pounds, but my rulings are usually wrong. I don't think weight has anything to with it.

SirNobody · « **Reply #17 on:** August 16, 2009, 05:21:38 AM »

Hey,

Quote from: RedemptionAggie on August 09, 2009, 11:35:49 PM

Or maybe it's "X" in the SA is static, whereas "X" or "*" in the numbers is dynamic?

That is how I've always understood and explained it.

Also, Zebulun doesn't have an "X" or a "*."

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #18 on:** August 16, 2009, 08:34:27 AM »

Quote from: RedemptionAggie on August 09, 2009, 11:35:49 PM

Or maybe it's "X" in the SA is static, whereas "X" or "*" in the numbers is dynamic?

Well, all the special abilities with "X" in them that I can think of are instant - correct me if I'm wrong. So if there were a character with abilities X/5 and SA "Character has first strike ability while X is an even number," where X=the number of cards in your hand, would you say that the strength of the hero would change as I played enhancements during that battle, but the first strike ability would only be determined at the time the character entered battle, and never change?

SirNobody · « **Reply #19 on:** August 16, 2009, 02:56:33 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: BubbleBoy on August 16, 2009, 08:34:27 AM

So if there were a character with abilities X/5 and SA "Character has first strike ability while X is an even number," where X=the number of cards in your hand, would you say that the strength of the hero would change as I played enhancements during that battle, but the first strike ability would only be determined at the time the character entered battle, and never change?

That ability should never exist. That sort of ability would be worded "While this character's strength is an even number, this character has first strike."

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #20 on:** August 16, 2009, 03:56:29 PM »

If it's a possibility, it should be taken into account.

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Author Topic: Heavy Taxes: When does it count the cards in your hand? (Read 2810 times)