Author Topic: Heal/set aside?  (Read 2136 times)

Offline Jonesy

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Heal/set aside?
« on: January 12, 2016, 10:12:51 AM »
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Let's say I set aside all my heroes with Pentecost. My opponent then d-decrees my heroes. Am I allowed to heal those heroes with a normal heal card?

Offline kram1138

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Re: Heal/set aside?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2016, 10:18:31 AM »
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During a prep or discard phase, yes
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Offline Jonesy

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Re: Heal/set aside?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2016, 10:29:46 AM »
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Would they go back to territory or set aside in that scenario?

Offline kram1138

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Re: Heal/set aside?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2016, 10:59:32 AM »
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Heal always returns to territory.
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Offline Jonesy

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Re: Heal/set aside?
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2016, 07:10:33 AM »
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Can i play a heal card with out a character in territory with matching brigade?

Offline Josh

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Re: Heal/set aside?
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2016, 10:30:01 AM »
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Can i play a heal card with out a character in territory with matching brigade?

If your heroes were discarded from play, it could be possible to play a heal card even if you have no hero in play with a matching brigade.  For example, you could play Healings in Malta, even if your only Clay hero was discarded.  Unfortunately, it looks like this rule won't help in this case, because your heroes were set aside.

Per the REG:  "If a character was discarded earlier in the turn, a heal ability must be able to target or be played on that character as it existed prior to being discarded (the character type and brigade it had prior to being discarded), not as it is at face value in discard pile."  Prior to being discarded, your heroes were set aside, so it would appear you can't play a heal card to heal them unless you have a hero in play that matches the brigade of the heal card. 

Also, another thing to keep in mind:  Darius' Decree's Restrict ability lasts until the end of the phase in which it is discarded.  So if they bomb your heroes during their Prep Phase, you have to wait until their Discard Phase to heal.  If they bomb your heroes during their Discard Phase, you are out of luck, as it will be your turn by the time you are allowed to heal.
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Heal/set aside?
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2016, 02:39:56 PM »
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Prior to being discarded, your heroes were set aside, so it would appear you can't play a heal card to heal them unless you have a hero in play that matches the brigade of the heal card.
Not quite.  It has to be able to target or be played on them "as it existed," not "where it existed" or a combination of the two (hence the clarification in parentheses and further clarification that we are talking about the difference between face value and attributes prior to discard).

That wording is saying the following:

- A Saul converted to Paul is targeted as a Hero; you cannot target him in discard pile with Healing of Namaan.
- You cannot play Balm of Gilead on a Joseph that was converted to white brigade by Gold Shield and then discarded; you have to play the blue enhancement on another character, or use a white enhancement on him.

You can still heal a character that was hit by DD, as long as you follow the other rules of heal (and then yes, it returns to territory).

kariusvega

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Re: Heal/set aside?
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2016, 03:45:31 PM »
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so with the new covenant can you play it as a healing enhancement even if you don't have a purple hero in play to heal your for example gold nt hero?

Offline Praeceps

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Re: Heal/set aside?
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2016, 03:49:55 PM »
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so with the new covenant can you play it as a healing enhancement even if you don't have a purple hero in play to heal your for example gold nt hero?

If it was being used as your active artifact at the time, yes.
Just one more thing...

Offline Redoubter

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Re: Heal/set aside?
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2016, 03:53:58 PM »
+1
so with the new covenant can you play it as a healing enhancement even if you don't have a purple hero in play to heal your for example gold nt hero?

If you play a healing card as an enhancement, it has to be played on a character of matching brigade in play or on a valid target for the heal in discard pile that meets the above conditions.

TNC already played as a covenant can be 'popped' just as an artifact to do the same thing without the targeting, because it is being used as an artifact.

Offline Noah

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Re: Heal/set aside?
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2016, 06:59:40 PM »
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So, on a related note, can Brass Serpent with it's errata even target characters that get discarded?

Brass Serpent - "Discard all poisons and diseases in play. Heal all Heroes in play."
« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 07:13:03 PM by tripleplayNo3 »
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kariusvega

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Re: Heal/set aside?
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2016, 08:06:43 PM »
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so with the new covenant can you play it as a healing enhancement even if you don't have a purple hero in play to heal your for example gold nt hero?

If you play a healing card as an enhancement, it has to be played on a character of matching brigade in play or on a valid target for the heal in discard pile that meets the above conditions.

TNC already played as a covenant can be 'popped' just as an artifact to do the same thing without the targeting, because it is being used as an artifact.

just as an enhancement though, there has to be a purple hero in play correct?

Offline Redoubter

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Re: Heal/set aside?
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2016, 08:59:25 PM »
+1
just as an enhancement though, there has to be a purple hero in play correct?

Or a 'healable' target in discard pile it can be played on (purple brigade hero who was discarded that turn).

Offline Josh

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Re: Heal/set aside?
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2016, 12:04:59 PM »
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Prior to being discarded, your heroes were set aside, so it would appear you can't play a heal card to heal them unless you have a hero in play that matches the brigade of the heal card.

Not quite.  It has to be able to target or be played on them "as it existed," not "where it existed" or a combination of the two (hence the clarification in parentheses and further clarification that we are talking about the difference between face value and attributes prior to discard).

So what you are saying is, Healing enhancements can be played on characters in territory with a matching brigade (which makes perfect sense) OR Healing enhancements can be played on characters in your discard pile that were discarded that turn. 

This has always been the confusing portion of the Heal ability:  "Playing" healing cards on characters that are in discard.  Are there any other enhancements that you are allowed to play on characters that are not in play?  It's counterintuitive, because it goes against well-defined game rules. 

I'd be curious to see why Heal works the way it does, because this would be a nightmare to explain to a newer player.  To me, it makes no sense that I can attack, choose my own Gray evil character to block, play AotL, win the battle, have no other Gray evil characters in play, and then somehow play Healing of Naaman to heal the Gray character that is sitting in my discard pile underneath AotL.
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Heal/set aside?
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2016, 09:27:54 PM »
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Are there any other enhancements that you are allowed to play on characters that are not in play?  It's counterintuitive, because it goes against well-defined game rules.

There are not others that function the same way, but this part of it is actually not new.  It's been the way Heal has worked from its initial creation, and changing it was not on the agenda (since that meant that you couldn't heal off of a total-wipe, which is part of the point).  Is it different from how things normally work?  Yes, but like any ability in the game it 'bends' what normally should happen.

So yes, Heal is different, and it's always been that way.  Honestly, it's a lot clearer and more defined than it has been previously, and the rules are pretty plain regarding how it works.

Offline Josh

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Re: Heal/set aside?
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2016, 12:53:14 PM »
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just as an enhancement though, there has to be a purple hero in play correct?

Or a 'healable' target in discard pile it can be played on (purple brigade hero who was discarded that turn).

This makes it seem like you could heal a hero that was discarded by Gates of Hell by playing a healing card on that hero.
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Heal/set aside?
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2016, 05:35:55 PM »
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just as an enhancement though, there has to be a purple hero in play correct?

Or a 'healable' target in discard pile it can be played on (purple brigade hero who was discarded that turn).

This makes it seem like you could heal a hero that was discarded by Gates of Hell by playing a healing card on that hero.

It does not, because I noted "healable" target, and Heal is very clear that you could not target a character discarded from deck:

Quote from: REG 3.0 > Heal > Default Conditions
● A character is “healable” if it was discarded earlier in the same turn, is poisoned, is diseased, or is paralyzed. If no more specific requirement is specified, targets must be “healable”.
● Characters discarded from hands or decks cannot be targeted by heal cards.

 


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