Author Topic: healing vs gates of hell (Read 3772 times)

Master KChief · « **on:** April 27, 2011, 05:37:52 AM »

if i discard heroes from deck via gates of hell (or any effect that discards a hero from deck), can i heal them later in the turn with brass serpent and return them to territory?

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #1 on:** April 27, 2011, 09:25:49 AM »

only if you have a hero in play to activate the healing enhancement on. To further the question, Can I activate I Am Healing as an artifact and heal heros discarded to Gates of Hell without a hero in play?

The Gates of Hell (TP)
Type: Fortress • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: At any time, you may discard the bottom card of deck. If it is an orange demon or a Lost Soul, place it in your territory instead. You may discard this card to add your demon to the battle. • Play As: At any time, you may discard the bottom card of deck. If it is an orange demon or a Lost Soul, place it in your territory instead. You may discard this card to add to battle your demon. • Identifiers: Play to set-aside area. • Verse: Matthew 16:18 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs ()

Ryupeco11 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 27, 2011, 10:17:25 AM »

I wanna say no because I didn't think you could heal heros that are not in play and if they go from deck to discard pile they are never in play. just my thoughts.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #3 on:** April 27, 2011, 10:36:03 AM »

yea trick question. what if I have The New Covanent active? Can I heal heros discarded by Gates with no hero in play?

The New Covenant (Di)
Type: Covenant • Brigade: Purple • Ability: 4 / 3 • Class: None • Special Ability: At any time, you may place this card beneath your deck to heal all N.T. Heroes, return all captured N.T. Heroes to territory, or discard all evil cards on N.T. Heroes. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Luke 22:19-20 • Availability: Disciples booster packs ()

Default to in play?

browarod · « **Reply #4 on:** April 27, 2011, 12:45:09 PM »

Healing cards target the character you're healing (I think), which often is in the discard pile, so I don't think they have a default "in play" clause. Since artifacts don't require characters to activate on, I don't see why you would need a hero in play to use them.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #5 on:** April 27, 2011, 12:57:45 PM »

You used to be able to, but I'm not sure if they changed the ruling on it since they were never in play (and because Kirk's combo was epic).

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #6 on:** April 27, 2011, 01:12:57 PM »

There was talk about changing the rule, but it never happened. You're perfectly free to heal Heroes discarded from Deck/Hand/Set-aside/Cathmandu/Wherever.

crustpope · « **Reply #7 on:** April 27, 2011, 02:21:16 PM »

Well then I am rebuilding a new version of Kirk's deck

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #8 on:** April 27, 2011, 03:54:54 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on April 27, 2011, 01:12:57 PM

There was talk about changing the rule, but it never happened. You're perfectly free to heal Heroes discarded from Deck/Hand/Set-aside/Cathmandu/Wherever.

So IAH/chamber still works?

browarod · « **Reply #9 on:** April 27, 2011, 04:21:34 PM »

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on April 27, 2011, 03:54:54 PM

Quote from: Minister Polarius on April 27, 2011, 01:12:57 PM
There was talk about changing the rule, but it never happened. You're perfectly free to heal Heroes discarded from Deck/Hand/Set-aside/Cathmandu/Wherever.
So IAH/chamber still works?

What does that have to do with this?

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #10 on:** April 27, 2011, 04:31:53 PM »

Quote from: browarod on April 27, 2011, 04:21:34 PM

Quote from: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on April 27, 2011, 03:54:54 PM
Quote from: Minister Polarius on April 27, 2011, 01:12:57 PM
There was talk about changing the rule, but it never happened. You're perfectly free to heal Heroes discarded from Deck/Hand/Set-aside/Cathmandu/Wherever.
So IAH/chamber still works?
What does that have to do with this?

A hero (or angel) that is discarded from deck (or hand) is still never in play, so the ruling should be the same.

Gabe · « **Reply #11 on:** April 27, 2011, 04:36:43 PM »

heal =/= instead

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #12 on:** April 27, 2011, 04:47:38 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on April 27, 2011, 01:12:57 PM

There was talk about changing the rule, but it never happened. You're perfectly free to heal Heroes discarded from Deck/Hand/Set-aside/Cathmandu/Wherever.

If the old rule still exists, then you are limited to where they can come from:

Instant Special Abilities > Restore Life, Heal, or Release > How to Use
Healing cards may be activated on any character in play (e.g., territory) of matching brigade color. They may target any card being discarded or subject to a poison or disease special ability, regardless of brigade color. The healing effect is instant, not delayed. You can play a healing enhancement at any time to restore a character sent to the discard pile at any previous time during the turn (e.g., Draw Phase or Preparation Phase). The discarded character may come from battle, a territory, a set-aside area, or from a draw pile. Cards being discarded can be healed on the way to the discard pile. Cards being discarded from anywhere may be healed at any point during that turn. Characters discarded on a previous turn cannot be healed. A healed card is immediately placed in the owner’s territory; they retain all their abilities.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #13 on:** April 27, 2011, 05:20:29 PM »

Quote from: Ryupeco11 on April 27, 2011, 10:17:25 AM

I wanna say no because I didn't think you could heal heros that are not in play and if they go from deck to discard pile they are never in play. just my thoughts.

Ryupeco11 is correct. If a character is discarded straight from the draw pile (or discard pile), then they were never "alive" to be healed. This would include characters discarded by GoH.

Quote from: Minister Polarius on April 27, 2011, 01:12:57 PM

There was talk about changing the rule, but it never happened.

I apologize that this wasn't made more clearly, but this rule did indeed change.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #14 on:** April 27, 2011, 05:26:25 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on April 27, 2011, 05:20:29 PM

Quote from: Minister Polarius on April 27, 2011, 01:12:57 PM
There was talk about changing the rule, but it never happened.
I apologize that this wasn't made more clearly, but this rule did indeed change.

By "more clearly" do you mean "posted anywhere of significance where players would see it."?

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #15 on:** April 27, 2011, 05:36:25 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on April 27, 2011, 05:26:25 PM

Quote from: Prof Underwood on April 27, 2011, 05:20:29 PM
Quote from: Minister Polarius on April 27, 2011, 01:12:57 PM
There was talk about changing the rule, but it never happened.
I apologize that this wasn't made more clearly, but this rule did indeed change.
By "more clearly" do you mean "posted anywhere of significance where players would see it."?

Basically, yes

I really did think it had been posted somewhere, but I'll have to do a search for it after dinner. In any event, as Pol mentioned, people knew that it had been discussed, and I don't think anyone's going to be super surprised.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #16 on:** April 27, 2011, 05:46:00 PM »

Nothing even close to an announcement has been posted anywhere. In fact, last time this came up we even had elder confirmation that the rule never officially changed. Therefore, until an announcement is made, Gates'd Heroes can be healed.

Gabe · « **Reply #17 on:** April 27, 2011, 05:49:04 PM »

Then consider this an announcement. The elders agreed to make this change starting after Nationals last year. I also thought it had been announced already, but apparently it wasn't.

Quote

A Heal effect can only target a character discarded from in play or set aside area. It cannot target a character discarded from a hand or deck.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 27, 2011, 06:40:45 PM »

What is the logic behind the ruling. I only ask this becasue I wanted to know if it affects any other cards.

Gabe · « **Reply #19 on:** April 27, 2011, 07:09:29 PM »

I added the official announcement to my post above and I've requested a moderator to add it to the "Official Rule Changes" thread. I think that the quote is pretty self explanatory but feel free to ask questions if something isn't clear.

crustpope · « **Reply #20 on:** April 27, 2011, 07:38:35 PM »

Quote from: TheHobbit13 on April 27, 2011, 06:40:45 PM

What is the logic behind the ruling. I only ask this becasue I wanted to know if it affects any other cards.

The short answer is that Kirks deck was broken..seriously broken. WHich isnt surprising since when you give type 2 players a card that can do something at any time for an unlimited number of times....you are asking for this card to be used and abused.

At least that was what I thought when I saw Gates of @#!*% for the first time...

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #21 on:** April 27, 2011, 08:13:04 PM »

Finally.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 27, 2011, 09:41:08 PM »

Quote from: crustpope on April 27, 2011, 07:38:35 PM

Quote from: TheHobbit13 on April 27, 2011, 06:40:45 PM
What is the logic behind the ruling. I only ask this becasue I wanted to know if it affects any other cards.

The short answer is that Kirks deck was broken..seriously broken.

Yeah, I know, he got it off on me turn 3 at nats. There was nothing I could do.

crustpope · « **Reply #23 on:** April 27, 2011, 09:50:41 PM »

Quote from: TheHobbit13 on April 27, 2011, 09:41:08 PM

Quote from: crustpope on April 27, 2011, 07:38:35 PM
Quote from: TheHobbit13 on April 27, 2011, 06:40:45 PM
What is the logic behind the ruling. I only ask this becasue I wanted to know if it affects any other cards.

The short answer is that Kirks deck was broken..seriously broken.

Yeah, I know, he got it off on me turn 3 at nats. There was nothing I could do.

Yeah, I think 3-4 turns was his average which in type 2 is tantamount to having it instantly. he once pulled it off on my in 2 turns. Had I known what to look for I could have seriously delayed him because I got to look at his hand and take a card via taking egypts wealth, ...but alas I had no idea what I was up against...

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #24 on:** April 27, 2011, 10:08:37 PM »

Right, the only game he lost outright was against someone who had one Golden Calf and he drew it first turn. lol.

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Author Topic: healing vs gates of hell (Read 3772 times)

browarod

Warrior_Monk

browarod

TheHobbit13

TheHobbit13

TheHobbit13