Author Topic: i don't understand this (Read 3541 times)

12tipton3 · « **on:** July 27, 2010, 12:14:59 AM »

okay. so i have lamp in tabernacle. outiside of tabernacle i have i am truth in my pile. i make a rescue attempt with lydia. my opponant blocks with red dragon. he is immune and i have init. i play no need for spices. he plays belshazzar's banquet. now i know this is the correct ruling cause i trust my friend on this. however, i looked at the cards again. and i looked in the book. if ignore is the same as repel then i kick my opponant out of battle and since he is not in battle, he can't play anything. it's like using garden tomb to make a rescue attempt. my opponant blocks with a small bab (even though there is only one red ec in play) and play's belshazzar's banquet. the only reason i compare scenarios is because ignore on the enhancement is the same ability as ignore on the tomb. if my opponant can't enter battle (or is kicked out) he can't play an enhancement. (this is only true if ignore and repel are truly the same i/e garden tomb)

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #1 on:** July 27, 2010, 12:20:31 AM »

The rule with Ignored evil characters is that they can't enter battle. If they're already there then they can no longer play an enhancement that affects the ignoring hero, but they can still play cards and aren't kicked out of battle.

Isildur · « **Reply #2 on:** July 27, 2010, 12:33:43 AM »

Also Repel is now ruled so that it works the same as how Red Dragon Thorn said how Ignore works. Repel no longer kicks characters back to territory.

crustpope · « **Reply #3 on:** July 27, 2010, 10:03:44 AM »

Yeah, Repel is an older wording of Ignore. It works differently than it sounds.

COUNTER_SNIPER · « **Reply #4 on:** July 27, 2010, 12:22:55 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on July 27, 2010, 12:20:31 AM

The rule with Ignored evil characters is that they can't enter battle. If they're already there then they can no longer play an enhancement that affects the ignoring hero, but they can still play cards and aren't kicked out of battle.

so then ignore basically becomes "immune" if played after battle begins? That's quite strange. -C_S

Professoralstad · « **Reply #5 on:** July 27, 2010, 12:31:40 PM »

Quote from: COUNTER_SNIPER on July 27, 2010, 12:22:55 PM

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on July 27, 2010, 12:20:31 AM
The rule with Ignored evil characters is that they can't enter battle. If they're already there then they can no longer play an enhancement that affects the ignoring hero, but they can still play cards and aren't kicked out of battle.
so then ignore basically becomes "immune" if played after battle begins? That's quite strange. -C_S

Partially. It means both characters (the ignorer and ignoree) are immune to each other, but the ignorer is always winning, so the ignoree has unlimited initiative. The ignorer will still win the battle if the battle ends with the ignorer continuing to ignore.

12tipton3 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 27, 2010, 03:04:03 PM »

by this logic the following scenario is possible:

garden tomb is up
there is only one crimson character 2/2 ashpenaz in play
mary the mother of james bands to joanna and makes a rescue attempt
ashoenaz blocks and plays belshazar's banquet

if this can't happen, by definition, then the ruling about ignored characters is not correct.

D-man · « **Reply #7 on:** July 27, 2010, 03:17:28 PM »

No, that is not possible. RDT's post clearly showed why. Did you read it?

Ignored characters can't enter battle. Characters that are already in battle, however, are not kicked out when an ignore activates in battle.

Michael_of_the_Star · « **Reply #8 on:** July 27, 2010, 03:57:42 PM »

Quote from: D-man on July 27, 2010, 03:17:28 PM

No, that is not possible. RDT's post clearly showed why. Did you read it?

Ignored characters can't enter battle. Characters that are already in battle, however, are not kicked out when an ignore activates in battle.

I agree, 12tipton3 just confused, with with a garden tomb ignore and a regular enhancement ignore. The Garden tomb ignore, Salome ignore Evil Character with weapon, Zebulum with ignore defense higher than the owner's hand, and Miriam ignore evil Gold evil character. These are all happen before a evil character enters battle; therefore those target cannot enter battle, due to the effect of the heroes or fortress.

Now with enhancement ignore, an evil character already in battle, and someone play like Ruben torn cloths, or Burning Incense which ignore character during a battle; therefore, the according to Thorn, the ignoree can play as many enhancement as possible as long as it doesn't affect the ignorer(s).

However, my question is for immune. If a character is immune to my hero, do I have unlimited time to play enhancement, or it is when my opponent's evil character is not longer killing, me, then they have initiative? Or, when my opponent's evil character no longer killing my hero, I said "pass", then it is my opponent's turn to play evil enhancement? Thank you.

ML.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #9 on:** July 27, 2010, 04:21:31 PM »

Quote from: Michael_of_the_Star on July 27, 2010, 03:57:42 PM

However, my question is for immune. If a character is immune to my hero, do I have unlimited time to play enhancement, or it is when my opponent's evil character is not longer killing, me, then they have initiative? Or, when my opponent's evil character no longer killing my hero, I said "pass", then it is my opponent's turn to play evil enhancement? Thank you.

Immune just means: "Your strength, SA, and the strength and SA of any enhancements you play does not affect me". It is as if the immune character has infinite toughness. However, in order for an immune character to defeat the opponent, his strength still needs to be equal to or greater than the toughness of the opponent. So Elhanan (10/10) vs. Red Dragon (5/6, immune to human heroes) results in a stalemate. Thus Elhanan has initiative first. He can play or pass, and then Red Dragon would get initiative (just like a regular stalemate). If Red Dragon's strength becomes 10 or greater, then Elhanan would be losing, and would have initiative until his toughness again is bigger than Red Dragon's strength.

Ignore works differently, because the ignorer never again has initiative while he is ignoring. So if I attack you with a priest, you block with Beast from the Sea (10/10), then I play Burning Incense to ignore Pale Green, you have initiative to play Confusion to discard a card from my deck, Stocks to capture a different Hero in play, and Death of Unrighteous to shuffle all of your Lost Souls, and I can't do anything. But no matter what you do, I will still win the battle unless the ignore is interrupted or a non-ignored character (say you play Rage to bring in a black EC) is brought in.

joeycauldron · « **Reply #10 on:** July 27, 2010, 08:07:17 PM »

When the evil character is ignored in battle, people usually have nothing to play so they just go back to their territory. But, they still have the chance to play a card before that. But if it doesn't say all characters ignore that evil character could you still play an enhancement that doesn't harm those characters? Also if the enhancement says to ignore an evil character, but it doesn't say all or just certain evil characters, do all the heros ignore, or do only the ones in battle ignore???

COUNTER_SNIPER · « **Reply #11 on:** July 27, 2010, 08:34:59 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on July 27, 2010, 12:31:40 PM

Quote from: COUNTER_SNIPER on July 27, 2010, 12:22:55 PM
Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on July 27, 2010, 12:20:31 AM
The rule with Ignored evil characters is that they can't enter battle. If they're already there then they can no longer play an enhancement that affects the ignoring hero, but they can still play cards and aren't kicked out of battle.
so then ignore basically becomes "immune" if played after battle begins? That's quite strange. -C_S

Partially. It means both characters (the ignorer and ignoree) are immune to each other, but the ignorer is always winning, so the ignoree has unlimited initiative. The ignorer will still win the battle if the battle ends with the ignorer continuing to ignore.

so, in essence, it can be potentially harmful for your territory and set-aside if you play an ignore enhancement because you will technically never have initiative except to negate or interrupt one of your opponents enhancements? And would that only be for enhancements that directly effect you; like if they use one of those enhancements that shuffles their lost souls, would you be unable to negate it because you don't have initiative? Just curious is all. -C_S

crustpope · « **Reply #12 on:** July 27, 2010, 10:33:43 PM »

Quote from: COUNTER_SNIPER on July 27, 2010, 08:34:59 PM

so, in essence, it can be potentially harmful for your territory and set-aside if you play an ignore enhancement because you will technically never have initiative except to negate or interrupt one of your opponents enhancements? And would that only be for enhancements that directly effect you; like if they use one of those enhancements that shuffles their lost souls, would you be unable to negate it because you don't have initiative? Just curious is all. -C_S

Yes, this is absolutely correct. IN fact the only way to negate an enhancement if you are ignoring the EC is to have Cov of Noah up. Ignore in battle could potentially be dangerous, Pre-block ignore however is Uber powerful. and cannot hurt you at all.

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #13 on:** July 27, 2010, 10:42:19 PM »

Unsuccessful also can negate something if the hero is being ignored

Korunks · « **Reply #14 on:** July 28, 2010, 08:27:24 AM »

Quote

the only reason i compare scenarios is because ignore on the enhancement is the same ability as ignore on the tomb. if my opponant can't enter battle (or is kicked out) he can't play an enhancement. (this is only true if ignore and repel are truly the same i/e garden tomb)

The ignore ability is the same, but when it triggers is the real difference, Garden Tomb is active Before Battle keeping the EC out of the battle. No need for spices activates after the EC is already in battle and ignore does not remove the EC from battle.

Quote

by this logic the following scenario is possible:

garden tomb is up
there is only one crimson character 2/2 ashpenaz in play
mary the mother of james bands to joanna and makes a rescue attempt
ashoenaz blocks and plays belshazar's banquet

if this can't happen, by definition, then the ruling about ignored characters is not correct.

This is incorrect, that is the humongous differnce between preblock ignore(Garden Tomb) and in battle ignore(No need for Spices). It works like this:

Scenario 1:

Garden Tomb is not in play, Player 1 rescues with Lydia, Player 2 blocks with Red Dragon. Player 1 has initiative because Lydia is losing by the numbers. Player 1 plays No need for spices to negate Red Dragon's immunity, and ignore him. Player 2 now has "infinite" intiative unless he negates the ignore, because nothing played on Red Dragon can target Lydia so initiative never passes because Lydia is still winning the battle. So Player 1 does some cool things like Set Fire, Great Image, and then finishes up by playing Belshazar's Banquet Which kills Red Dragon and protects all Lost souls from rescues. Belshzars banquet does not target Lydia put prevents the rescue, Lydia wins the battle, but fails to rescue the soul.

Scenario 2:

Garden Tomb is in play and Player 2 has a Redeemed Soul. Player 1 Rescues with Mary banded to Salome, Red Dragon(the only crimson EC in play) cannot enter battle because Garden Tombs already active ignore is keeping him out.

See the difference?

swgamble · « **Reply #15 on:** July 28, 2010, 10:36:18 AM »

Quote from: 12tipton3 on July 27, 2010, 03:04:03 PM

by this logic the following scenario is possible:

garden tomb is up
there is only one crimson character 2/2 ashpenaz in play
mary the mother of james bands to joanna and makes a rescue attempt
ashoenaz blocks and plays belshazar's banquet

if this can't happen, by definition, then the ruling about ignored characters is not correct.

i used to play and just started playing again a week ago and i have seen alot about garden tomb but i don't know what it is?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #16 on:** July 28, 2010, 10:56:29 AM »

That is The Garden Tomb.

xCaLeBx · « **Reply #17 on:** July 28, 2010, 11:06:02 AM »

*mumblesaboutdumbemptyeratawhenitshouldhaveburialshroudmumbles*

but other than that it is the awesomest of awesome alright mebbe not that awesome now card.

swgamble · « **Reply #18 on:** July 28, 2010, 11:16:04 AM »

thanks that does look like it would be good

COUNTER_SNIPER · « **Reply #19 on:** July 28, 2010, 01:03:28 PM »

Quote from: crustpope on July 27, 2010, 10:33:43 PM

Quote from: COUNTER_SNIPER on July 27, 2010, 08:34:59 PM
so, in essence, it can be potentially harmful for your territory and set-aside if you play an ignore enhancement because you will technically never have initiative except to negate or interrupt one of your opponents enhancements? And would that only be for enhancements that directly effect you; like if they use one of those enhancements that shuffles their lost souls, would you be unable to negate it because you don't have initiative? Just curious is all. -C_S

Yes, this is absolutely correct. IN fact the only way to negate an enhancement if you are ignoring the EC is to have Cov of Noah up. Ignore in battle could potentially be dangerous, Pre-block ignore however is Uber powerful. and cannot hurt you at all.

Hm, that kinda stinks! But I guess if no matter what you automatically win the battle, there has to be a pretty great price... You just have to hope that when your opponent finishes unloading their enhancements that there's still lost souls in their land of bondage!

Just to clarify though, if an enhancement played by your opponent directly affects you/your territory/set-aside, you CAN play a negate or interrupt if YOU don't have initiative, but only if it affects your stuff?

Thanks,

-C_S

xCaLeBx · « **Reply #20 on:** July 28, 2010, 01:26:35 PM »

You can only play an enhancement when you don't have initiative if your opponent is killing you............................thus giving you initiative...

Michael_of_the_Star · « **Reply #21 on:** July 28, 2010, 01:51:04 PM »

Also, something that people are confuse with, is when I played something like "Mask of Fear", the only way to negate it is by artifact, or a enhancement says cannot be negated. Thank you.

ML.

Cousin It · « **Reply #22 on:** July 30, 2010, 10:46:53 AM »

Quote from: COUNTER_SNIPER on July 28, 2010, 01:03:28 PM

Just to clarify though, if an enhancement played by your opponent directly affects you/your territory/set-aside, you CAN play a negate or interrupt if YOU don't have initiative, but only if it affects your stuff?

Thanks,

-C_S

Actually, you only get inish to play an interrupt or negate if your character in battle is being effected by an opponent's enhancement. They are free to whale on your territory/deck/set aside without you being able to play anything.

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Author Topic: i don't understand this (Read 3541 times)

12tipton3

12tipton3