Author Topic: Great Faith(wo) (Read 8480 times)

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 20, 2011, 03:02:45 PM »

I hope that was sarcasm.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #26 on:** January 20, 2011, 03:11:32 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on January 20, 2011, 02:37:14 PM

Nope, SitC are all thats keeping T2 awesome, cause lets be honest, who isn't sitting waiting for the next awesome combo-deck thats just going to wreck face.

I'm not sitting waiting. I'm sitting and building. Unfortunately, I'm a horrible deck builder.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #27 on:** January 20, 2011, 03:30:10 PM »

well if you would like to share any ideas id be glad to help in the building process sir

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #28 on:** January 20, 2011, 03:39:13 PM »

I'm fairly sure you destroyed the newest combo I've been working on. Olijar played it. And built it, it was just my idea, haha.

crustpope · « **Reply #29 on:** January 20, 2011, 08:03:12 PM »

Quote from: TheHobbit13 on January 20, 2011, 03:02:45 PM

I hope that was sarcasm.

No, you see, that is the issue. Type 2 players relish the opportunity to get waylaid by a fantastic combo deck. The first time Clift played a SitC deck on me was at Nationals in KC. I was in the top 10 (with no real chance to place) and he dropped me 7-3 or soemthing like that. I never saw it coming...but it was awesome! and I went out and built one as soon as I got home.

I played against Kirk's demon deck and I thought it was brilliant in its design. His besieging the city deck is very frustrating, but you gotta give him props on the build.

this past year, I had the privlege of doing the same thing in a regional to Clift....but I misplayed my deck because I had to rebuild it due to the Highway eratta and wasnt as familiar with the new routine. but that is what type 2 players LOVE to do. they want one Re-DONK-ulous deck that totally nerfs everyone it plays....for at least one year until everyone gangs up on it.

I am fine with everyone ganging up on it, but nerfing a deck before it is even played is crazy...and SitC has only won nationals once....at a small field in cali where virtually no one h ad ever played a Sitc deck before. I can play my Sitc deck here in ohio and it gets me mayby a 60% chance of winning with all the counters people play with. Clift plays SitC in Georgia and gets beat like a red headed-stepchild. Tyler LAUGHS (msot of the time) at SitC...because they KNOW how to play against them.

If SitC had won multiple nationals and had beaten people by ridicclous margins then sure, you have a case, but I dont think that the case for a SitC eratta exists yet. expecially wiht all the counters out there now.

I have an issue with people that have a type 1 mindset crying about combos when they play type II for the first time thinkign it will be exaclty like type 1. It is not, it is a different animal. so please let us keep type II as it is and try not to make it a glorified type I.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #30 on:** January 20, 2011, 08:43:00 PM »

Cactus needs to make a T2 starter deck.

The Guardian · « **Reply #31 on:** January 20, 2011, 10:55:45 PM »

Quote

Type 2 players relish the opportunity to get waylaid by a fantastic combo deck.

I don't. Nor do I get much fun out of pulling off a "you can do nothing" combo on someone else. I don't deny that some people enjoy being on either end of one of those combos, but not every T2 player does so that generalization is false.

Quote

His besieging the city deck is very frustrating, but you gotta give him props on the build.

Kirk built a very different version of that deck, but it was based on a BtC combo deck that I built back in 2005. Ron Sias also built a version that year. Just for the record...

Quote

expecially wiht all the counters out there now.

For the third time...how can you possibly incorporate enough counters to handle a combo that can go off as early as turn 2? I lost a recent match against Clift's deck 7-2. I drew a good dom, I am Grace and Gloria in Excelsis Deo. I still got locked with 3 SitCs. It was several turns before I was actually locked, but it was turn 2 or 3 when my hand got shrunk to 3 cards and stayed that way until the lock.
I know this is one game, I know it doesn't always happen, but it's simply a scenario that Redemption can do just fine without. It's one thing to come up against a stiff defense that your offense can't get past or face an overwhelming offense that is seemingly unblockable. It's an entirely different matter when your opponent has more cards in your territory than you have in your territory and hand combined (Lost Souls aside).

Quote

but nerfing a deck before it is even played is crazy...and SitC has only won nationals once....

It may have only won Nats once, but it's been around for several years and I'm fairly certain it's caused more frustration and resentment than it's caused people saying "That was so much fun doing absolutely nothing." Just ask the people who have used it (and other combo decks) on a regular basis what the typical response is from their opponents.

Quote

I have an issue with people that have a type 1 mindset crying about combos when they play type II for the first time thinkign it will be exaclty like type 1. It is not, it is a different animal. so please let us keep type II as it is and try not to make it a glorified type I.

No one's crying and I've been playing T2 longer than many of those in this thread have been playing Redemption so that "issue" doesn't apply here. It was once possible to take 3 turns in a row in T1--Rob decided this was not good for the game. Why should something that is not good for the game be acceptable in T2?

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #32 on:** January 21, 2011, 12:31:25 AM »

Quote

For the third time...how can you possibly incorporate enough counters to handle a combo that can go off as early as turn 2? I lost a recent match against Clift's deck 7-2. I drew a good dom, I am Grace and Gloria in Excelsis Deo. I still got locked with 3 SitCs. It was several turns before I was actually locked, but it was turn 2 or 3 when my hand got shrunk to 3 cards and stayed that way until the lock.

STAMP · « **Reply #33 on:** January 21, 2011, 11:05:48 AM »

Quote from: The Guardian on January 20, 2011, 10:55:45 PM

Quote
Type 2 players relish the opportunity to get waylaid by a fantastic combo deck.

I don't. Nor do I get much fun out of pulling off a "you can do nothing" combo on someone else. I don't deny that some people enjoy being on either end of one of those combos, but not every T2 player does so that generalization is false.

Now, now...I realize my "Flood the Battlefield" never made it out of the NW, but I heard many a story about "Lockdown". And Rob never saw mine in action so it wasn't the reason for the sudden rule change of one side battle per turn.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #34 on:** January 21, 2011, 02:27:21 PM »

Quote from: crustpope on January 20, 2011, 08:03:12 PM

Quote from: TheHobbit13 on January 20, 2011, 03:02:45 PM
I hope that was sarcasm.

Type 2 players relish the opportunity to get waylaid by a fantastic combo deck.

I don't, Kirks demon deck (which was by the way genius) wasn't fun to play. He got it off on turn 2 and there was nothing I could do about it. I have nothing wrong with people wanting to play combo decks, however they inherently undermine the game. They discourage player interaction, tech against almost every deck type, exploits the poorly worded specials/ no ban policy, and can discourage fun and fellowship. I understand why you had fun playing it, but I am thinking that if you were in my position you may have felt differently about the whole matter. I know Gabe wasn't thrilled either.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #35 on:** January 21, 2011, 02:32:32 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on January 20, 2011, 03:39:13 PM

I'm fairly sure you destroyed the newest combo I've been working on. Olijar played it. And built it, it was just my idea, haha.

You only found it because my other combo is illegal, to be fair

. Also, I hate Sin in the Camp Speed. 12 cards drawn on turn 1 = GG sir to our combo.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #36 on:** January 21, 2011, 02:38:59 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on January 21, 2011, 02:32:32 PM

Quote from: Ring Wraith on January 20, 2011, 03:39:13 PM
I'm fairly sure you destroyed the newest combo I've been working on. Olijar played it. And built it, it was just my idea, haha.

You only found it because my other combo is illegal, to be fair . Also, I hate Sin in the Camp Speed. 12 cards drawn on turn 1 = GG sir to our combo.

I was toying with the same idea back in September. I was trying to do too much though, and it failed.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #37 on:** January 21, 2011, 04:07:37 PM »

Yeah, it's a very fragile deck structure.

crustpope · « **Reply #38 on:** January 21, 2011, 04:15:35 PM »

Quote from: TheHobbit13 on January 21, 2011, 02:27:21 PM

Quote from: crustpope on January 20, 2011, 08:03:12 PM
Quote from: TheHobbit13 on January 20, 2011, 03:02:45 PM
I hope that was sarcasm.

Type 2 players relish the opportunity to get waylaid by a fantastic combo deck.

I don't, Kirks demon deck (which was by the way genius) wasn't fun to play. He got it off on turn 2 and there was nothing I could do about it. I have nothing wrong with people wanting to play combo decks, however they inherently undermine the game. They discourage player interaction, tech against almost every deck type, exploits the poorly worded specials/ no ban policy, and can discourage fun and fellowship. I understand why you had fun playing it, but I am thinking that if you were in my position you may have felt differently about the whole matter. I know Gabe wasn't thrilled either.

Let me rephrase my position. I believe that type I Iplayers love the opportunity to place their minds agains the best combo decks and undo them...beat them at their own game.

And yes I was on the recieving end of Kirk's deck. I was the First person he ever beat with it in an official tournament to the best of my knowledge. But when you make cards like GoH where you can do something an unlimited number of times at any time of the game...then you can expect that kind of abuse. Dont blame Kirk, blame the people who made that card.

When I saw that card I knew it was only a matter of time before someone would break the game.

Now Kirk's demon deck should be fixed in some way. WHen he played me it took him 3 turns to begin the lock out and his deck can set up within that time amount easily. The SitC takes longer (Justins example is the RARE exception) especially when you have counters to it in your own deck.

But it doesnt matter these kind of decks are gonna be banned eventually anyway

Carl deuty · « **Reply #39 on:** January 21, 2011, 04:28:55 PM »

H2O jars work well against sin in the camp decks

The Guardian · « **Reply #40 on:** January 21, 2011, 04:34:48 PM »

Sure they are...if you draw one plus a Samaritan before turn 3.

STAMP · « **Reply #41 on:** January 21, 2011, 04:44:41 PM »

I can lose a T2 game in 5 turns with a combo deck that causes me to do nothing for turns 3-5.

I have lost a T2 game in 5 turns more than once with regular ol' T2 decks, and I was able to do nothing for several turns due to the draw.

Can I get a ruling change on bad draws since it is no fun for that to happen?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #42 on:** January 21, 2011, 04:55:39 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on January 21, 2011, 04:44:41 PM

I can lose a T2 game in 5 turns with a combo deck that causes me to do nothing for turns 3-5.

I have lost a T2 game in 5 turns more than once with regular ol' T2 decks, and I was able to do nothing for several turns due to the draw.

Can I get a ruling change on bad draws since it is no fun for that to happen?

There recently was a ruling change that was supposed to help mitigate bad draws (2nd player draws 3). Unfortunately, that change coincided with the introduction of Mayhem, which makes the 2nd player drawing three even worse for him in many cases.

The problem with most combo decks historically is that turns 3-5 are usually arduously long. If I attack your standalone/nonexistaent defense 5 times in a row with my Centurions and then play SoG/NJ, then at least you only spent ten minutes playing and have more time to reconsider using a Red offense...

STAMP · « **Reply #43 on:** January 21, 2011, 05:01:09 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on January 21, 2011, 04:55:39 PM

The problem with most combo decks historically is that turns 3-5 are usually arduously long. If I attack your standalone/nonexistaent defense 5 times in a row with my Centurions and then play SoG/NJ, then at least you only spent ten minutes playing and have more time to reconsider using a Red offense...

In the combo example, I can use it as a strategy teaching example to RLKs to help them improve their game.

In the other example, they just go back to playing video games until the next round.

When red becomes this season's new green, then I'll make the switch.

Carl deuty · « **Reply #44 on:** January 21, 2011, 07:35:57 PM »

green ain't no good!

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #45 on:** January 21, 2011, 09:17:40 PM »

FWIW, my combo uses one red and zero green cards.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #46 on:** January 27, 2011, 12:33:43 AM »

Can Great Faith(wo) search for an evil card?

Great Faith (Wo)
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Purple • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Holder may search own draw pile and exchange this card with another enhancement card, then shuffle. • Errata: Exchange this enhancement with another good enhancement in your deck (you may place in hand or add to battle). • Identifiers: NT, Spiritual Gift • Verse: Matthew 15:28 • Availability: Women booster packs (Uncommon)

back on topic?

was this errata correct? can some playtester ask Rob about this one? and please dont forget about Gabe (wa) and Battle Prayer (wa) also which seems to go along with this same argument we've had so many times in the past already.

Gabe · « **Reply #47 on:** January 27, 2011, 12:49:53 AM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on January 27, 2011, 12:33:43 AM

was this errata correct? can some playtester ask Rob about this one? and please dont forget about Gabe (wa) and Battle Prayer (wa) also which seems to go along with this same argument we've had so many times in the past already.

I do not find a discussion on the public boards or the elder boards about issuing an errata to Great Faith (Wo). Multiple elders have mentioned their surprise at the change. I believe the errata listed in the REG to be in error.

I'll asked for Rob's input on the elder boards so we can make an official announcement. Please be patient while we wait for him to have time to answer.

Isildur · « **Reply #48 on:** January 27, 2011, 01:10:12 AM »

Wait so have I been playing Great Faith wrong for years? I always thought the card that was exchanged for went into battle so that ment you could only search for a good card... does the card you exchange for actually go to your hand?

Also how is Great Faith a spiritual gift?

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #49 on:** January 27, 2011, 08:16:10 AM »

It would go into your hand if it doesn't go into battle.

News:

Author Topic: Great Faith(wo) (Read 8480 times)

TheHobbit13

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk

TheHobbit13

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk