Author Topic: Grapes VS. AOTL (Read 2482 times)

adamfincher · « **on:** November 10, 2009, 08:19:19 AM »

So i am searching my deck. i am shuffling it well. i tell my oponent i am playing aol. i still have my deck and they play grapes. who gets their dom counting?

Tracer Burnout · « **Reply #1 on:** November 10, 2009, 08:56:33 AM »

Quote from: adamfincher on November 10, 2009, 08:19:19 AM

So i am searching my deck. i am shuffling it well. i tell my oponent i am playing aol. i still have my deck and they play grapes. who gets their dom counting?

I wouldn't tell him until you are done shuffling and then play it. Then it's revealed and he knows. Regardless you get to keep AOTL since the action has to complete before you can play a dominant. I know this doesn't really answer the question but it gives a solution on how to avoid it in the future!

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #2 on:** November 10, 2009, 08:57:34 AM »

Quote from: adamfincher on November 10, 2009, 08:19:19 AM

So i am searching my deck. i am shuffling it well. i tell my oponent i am playing aol. i still have my deck and they play grapes. who gets their dom counting?

They can't play a dominant until special abilities complete. If you are still shuffling, then the SA hasn't completed and they can't play. When you put your deck down, you can probably play AotL before they can play Grapes because you know exactly when you are putting your deck down. If a judge is called over, then they should rule in your favor because you are responding to your own action.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #3 on:** November 10, 2009, 06:21:45 PM »

Prof is correct - You have the initiative to play AotL, In the case of "slap-jack" the Judge will rule in your favor, if the Judge doesn't I would point them towards every major ruling thread in the past two years.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #4 on:** November 10, 2009, 06:28:57 PM »

However, it is also important to know that this "initiative" only grants you the power in a tie or slap jack. If your opponent obviously plays Grapes first, you can't force your AotL in. Similarly, you cannot use this rule to allow you to respond to your opponent's action.

SirNobody · « **Reply #5 on:** November 10, 2009, 06:44:00 PM »

Hey,

Quote from: Cameron the Conqueror on November 10, 2009, 06:28:57 PM

However, it is also important to know that this "initiative" only grants you the power in a tie or slap jack. If your opponent obviously plays Grapes first, you can't force your AotL in. Similarly, you cannot use this rule to allow you to respond to your opponent's action.

Which is why it's a good thing that he said he was going to play Angel of the Lord. By declaring his intent he is making it clear to his opponent that he plans to immediately respond to his previous action, thus any action taken by his opponent would result in the situation qualifying as slap jack and his Angel of the Lord would take precedence.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

adamfincher · « **Reply #6 on:** November 10, 2009, 09:31:41 PM »

well that wouldve made me win 3 turns faster

i got first anyways so its all good.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #7 on:** November 11, 2009, 08:21:47 AM »

Quote from: Cameron the Conqueror on November 10, 2009, 06:28:57 PM

However, it is also important to know that this "initiative" only grants you the power in a tie or slap jack. If your opponent obviously plays Grapes first, you can't force your AotL in. Similarly, you cannot use this rule to allow you to respond to your opponent's action.

This is how it works, correct? At the last tournament I went to, my opponent made a RA with PoC, and I blocked with someone from hand. Then he searched for a dominant (AotL, which he showed me), and once he put his deck down, I played Mayhem. A jugde was called over, and he ruled that the play of Mayhem was illegal, because players get to respond to their own actions first. Is that correct?

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #8 on:** November 11, 2009, 10:35:03 AM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on November 11, 2009, 08:21:47 AM

Quote from: Cameron the Conqueror on November 10, 2009, 06:28:57 PM
However, it is also important to know that this "initiative" only grants you the power in a tie or slap jack. If your opponent obviously plays Grapes first, you can't force your AotL in. Similarly, you cannot use this rule to allow you to respond to your opponent's action.
This is how it works, correct? At the last tournament I went to, my opponent made a RA with PoC, and I blocked with someone from hand. Then he searched for a dominant (AotL, which he showed me), and once he put his deck down, I played Mayhem. A jugde was called over, and he ruled that the play of Mayhem was illegal, because players get to respond to their own actions first. Is that correct?

Yes, he has the opportunity to play his AotL first. You were using his focus on his deck to hit the table 1st. However, if he isn't going to play AotL and you play Mayhem, he can't sneak his AotL in before you.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #9 on:** November 11, 2009, 11:57:42 AM »

I waited for him to pick up his hand.

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #10 on:** November 11, 2009, 12:00:24 PM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on November 11, 2009, 11:57:42 AM

I waited for him to pick up his hand.

He still gets the 1st crack at it. Wait 2-3 seconds; if he isn't going to play, it won't change in that short time. Then play your Grapes.

The best way to do this is for the person who would get 1st crack to state out loud what he/she is going to do. This removes problems and a judge will be able to rule correctly.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 11, 2009, 04:47:25 PM »

Quote from: BubbleBoy on November 11, 2009, 11:57:42 AM

I waited for him to pick up his hand.

As the judge (or at least I think it was me), here is what this looks likes from the judges point of view.

Player A: I had the right to play my dominant first, and I was going to, but Player B didn't give me enough time.
Player B: I gave you plenty of time.
Player A: No, you didn't.
Player B: Yes, I did.

At that point--assuming the judge wasn't standing there watching--how do you think the judge should rule? I don't want to get into a huge investigation to decide who is telling the truth. Since Player A had the right to play his dominant first, Player A gets the benefit of the doubt in my book.

I know this isn't always fair to Player B and that other judges will rule differently. The upside of my approach is, however, that when you play and I am judging, you know how I am going to rule--so you can take it into account.

Gabe · « **Reply #12 on:** November 11, 2009, 04:51:44 PM »

I would have ruled the same in that situation.

lightningninja · « **Reply #13 on:** November 12, 2009, 12:00:42 AM »

Yep me too. If it's word vs. word then whoever had the initiative in the slap jack should get the benefit of the doubt.

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Author Topic: Grapes VS. AOTL (Read 2482 times)

adamfincher

Grapes VS. AOTL

Tracer Burnout

Re: Grapes VS. AOTL

Prof Underwood

Re: Grapes VS. AOTL

Red Dragon Thorn

Re: Grapes VS. AOTL

Cameron the Conqueror

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SirNobody

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adamfincher

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BubbleBoy

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Cameron the Conqueror

Re: Grapes VS. AOTL

BubbleBoy

Re: Grapes VS. AOTL

Cameron the Conqueror

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EmJayBee83

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Gabe

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lightningninja

Re: Grapes VS. AOTL