Author Topic: Grapes on Enhancements (Read 3383 times)

Chris · « **on:** June 16, 2012, 03:16:49 PM »

A player blocks, has initiative, and plays an enhancement, which does not pass special initiative. The rescuing player plays Angel of the Lord, killing the only evil character currently in battle. Can the blocking player play Grapes on the enhancement to shuffle the hero(es)?

adotson85 · « **Reply #1 on:** June 16, 2012, 04:58:53 PM »

No, you would have to interrupt or instead the discard to be able to do anything. The enhancement is discarded along with the evil character, so their would be no evil cards in battle for Grapes to target.

Chris · « **Reply #2 on:** June 16, 2012, 05:23:13 PM »

Quote from: adotson85 on June 16, 2012, 04:58:53 PM

No, you would have to interrupt or instead the discard to be able to do anything. The enhancement is discarded along with the evil character, so their would be no evil cards in battle for Grapes to target.

This was my thought, but the official tournament judges believed that the enhancements remained in play until battle resolution.

Ken4Christ4ever · « **Reply #3 on:** June 16, 2012, 09:23:35 PM »

If the same ability that causes a specific brigade of character to be no longer is battle also brings in another character of that brigade, the enhancements stay. Otherwise, they are discarded immediately and could not even stick around if a player uses Unknown Nation or some other idea to bring another character in.

megamanlan · « **Reply #4 on:** June 17, 2012, 12:32:38 AM »

You cannot play Grapes on an Enhancement if there is no EC in battle, because unless you use something like UN the battle jumps to Battle Resoution and no Doms can be played at that time.

Chris · « **Reply #5 on:** June 17, 2012, 07:28:49 AM »

Quote from: megamanlan on June 17, 2012, 12:32:38 AM

You cannot play Grapes on an Enhancement if there is no EC in battle, because unless you use something like UN the battle jumps to Battle Resoution and no Doms can be played at that time.

Now I know that this is not the reason, because it doesn't address other concerns in this area (i.e. what happens in this same situation if two characters of different brigades were in battle and one gets discarded, the other is protected, so all that would be left is an enhancement), whereas the other explanations do.

Thank you guys for your help.

megamanlan · « **Reply #6 on:** June 17, 2012, 02:17:01 PM »

If multiple Characters are in battle and there are Enhancements in battle you can play it on an Enhancement. But you can't play Doms during Battle Resolution (after all Enhancements/Doms have been played/end the battle was played/there are no Heroes/EC's in battle).

Jmbeers · « **Reply #7 on:** June 17, 2012, 02:41:18 PM »

That's just wrong, if what you were saying is true you could't play CM to stop a player from saving a soul after battle or bury the only soul they had acess to. Which we can.

megamanlan · « **Reply #8 on:** June 17, 2012, 02:45:06 PM »

It's a rule that is not commonly known, but it is true, but if Opponent hits AotL on ur EC, you can respond to it w/ CM.

Jmbeers · « **Reply #9 on:** June 17, 2012, 03:10:14 PM »

You can still respond with CM if they use AOCP

megamanlan · « **Reply #10 on:** June 17, 2012, 03:54:48 PM »

I would agree, but you can't respond using mutiple Doms, (excluding SoG/NJ) and if a player uses AoCP, you can't use GoW on an Enhancement, because once no EC's are in battle (unless u respond w/ UN) all Enhancements are discarded too.

Jmbeers · « **Reply #11 on:** June 17, 2012, 04:05:34 PM »

I'm not disagreeing with graps, I'm just saying your reasoning on why you can't play it because of some kind of Dom restriction is just funky.

megamanlan · « **Reply #12 on:** June 17, 2012, 04:07:17 PM »

It's out there, and in the Rulebook. At a point in the battle, you are no longer allowed to play Doms. (namely Battle Rez, thats why you cant use Doms after an End the Battle card is played)

megamanlan · « **Reply #13 on:** June 17, 2012, 04:20:37 PM »

You just repeated what you just said...

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #14 on:** June 17, 2012, 09:50:09 PM »

Im probably going to repeat a couple of people here also but let me clarify:

If your ~~dying by special ability~~ losing by removal then you may proceed to play doms like CM ect.

If your dying by numbers then you better make sure to play your dom before you place your EC in the discard pile otherwise youve declared that you are proceeding to the next phase which is resolution.

Redoubter · « **Reply #15 on:** June 17, 2012, 11:43:00 PM »

Question: Can someone point me to the part of the rules that say that an enhancement leaves the battle when the character that they were played on leaves, even if they are the last character?

All the rules I have found say that enhancements in battle (not placed, obviously) are not discarded until Battle Resolution. So if someone could actually point out the rule (not posted here yet), that'd be great.

Also, if that enhancement stays in battle, there is no reason I can play CM on a hero after being AoTL but not Grapes on the evil card after being AoTL.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #16 on:** June 18, 2012, 12:05:20 AM »

megamanlan, you are correct in saying that you cannot play dominants during Battle Resolution. However, the battle does not go to battle resolution unless both players agree upon it.

Situation A: Mutual Destruction/Stalemate/Winning/Losing. "I pass." "I pass." "I pass." Battle Resolution. No dominants.
Situation B: Discard by ability. Special Initiative activates, player chooses to pass, player chooses to do nothing more, other player chooses to do nothing more. Battle Resolution. No dominants.

Battle Resolution can only be forced by End The Battle cards, but otherwise it must be agreed upon by both players. Thus your side-comments is not pertinent to this question, nor accurate, because you can play as many dominants as you like until you agree to go to battle resolution.

As for the original question, I've always played if the evil character dies and there's nobody to bounce to, the enhancements go too, but I have nothing to back that up.

EYES_on_ZION · « **Reply #17 on:** June 18, 2012, 05:15:37 AM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on June 18, 2012, 12:05:20 AM

megamanlan, you are correct in saying that you cannot play dominants during Battle Resolution. However, the battle does not go to battle resolution unless both players agree upon it.

Situation A: Mutual Destruction/Stalemate/Winning/Losing. "I pass." "I pass." "I pass." Battle Resolution. No dominants.
Situation B: Discard by ability. Special Initiative activates, player chooses to pass, player chooses to do nothing more, other player chooses to do nothing more. Battle Resolution. No dominants.

Battle Resolution can only be forced by End The Battle cards, but otherwise it must be agreed upon by both players. Thus your side-comments is not pertinent to this question, nor accurate, because you can play as many dominants as you like until you agree to go to battle resolution.

As for the original question, I've always played if the evil character dies and there's nobody to bounce to, the enhancements go too, but I have nothing to back that up.

Quote from: Ring Wraith on June 18, 2012, 12:05:20 AM

megamanlan, you are correct in saying that you cannot play dominants during Battle Resolution. However, the battle does not go to battle resolution unless both players agree upon it.

Situation A: Mutual Destruction/Stalemate/Winning/Losing. "I pass." "I pass." "I pass." Battle Resolution. No dominants.
Situation B: Discard by ability. Special Initiative activates, player chooses to pass, player chooses to do nothing more, other player chooses to do nothing more. Battle Resolution. No dominants.

Battle Resolution can only be forced by End The Battle cards, but otherwise it must be agreed upon by both players. Thus your side-comments is not pertinent to this question, nor accurate, because you can play as many dominants as you like until you agree to go to battle resolution.

As for the original question, I've always played if the evil character dies and there's nobody to bounce to, the enhancements go too, but I have nothing to back that up.

i was just goingto say this too. People sont see it that way because honestly nobody ever really says all that stuff in a game but technically there has to be an agreement on battle resolution. Like the fact that you can use aotl on nebby even if he wins a battle but right before he goes to territory where he is protected by headquarters.

Ken4Christ4ever · « **Reply #18 on:** June 18, 2012, 10:03:53 AM »

Gabe ruled it in this thread and included a quote from the REG.

TechnoEthicist · « **Reply #19 on:** June 18, 2012, 10:21:54 AM »

Sent request for this and other quick rulings be posted in the stickied FAQ so that the percentage of games losses due to incorrect rulings is minimized...

Korunks · « **Reply #20 on:** June 18, 2012, 01:06:22 PM »

That section does not seem to be in the REG any longer, is it still correct?

ARE WE EVER GOING TO GET THE SEARCH FUNCTIONS RESTORED IN THE REG OR THIS FORUM??!! maybe if I put all in caps we will actually get an answer about the decrepit state of the REG and These forums.

TimMierz · « **Reply #21 on:** June 18, 2012, 01:29:43 PM »

To do a Google search on the Ruling Questions forum, enter something like this into Google:

site:http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/ shame lost soul

As for the REG, the search there was rarely helpful anyways, since it would bring up any result containing any of the words you searched for, not necessarily all of them, and in no helpful order.

Red Wing · « **Reply #22 on:** June 18, 2012, 01:45:40 PM »

Quote from: TimMierz on June 18, 2012, 01:29:43 PM

As for the REG, the search there was rarely helpful anyways, since it would bring up any result containing any of the words you searched for, not necessarily all of them, and in no helpful order.

The REG search doesn't work either.

Redoubter · « **Reply #23 on:** June 18, 2012, 08:15:56 PM »

Quote from: Ken4Christ4ever on June 18, 2012, 10:03:53 AM

Gabe ruled it in this thread and included a quote from the REG.

Wait, so it was posted to the REG under Use Other Enhancements?! And it's not even there anymore (checked like Korunks). This is seriously getting annoying, having rulings from ages ago not posted anywhere we can find them and not even posted in the REG. And if they ARE there they aren't in a section we would look in.

I know this complaint is getting a little more angry every time I air it, but this is getting ridiculous.

On a side note, thank you for finding the relevant ruling

I appreciate it.

News:

Author Topic: Grapes on Enhancements (Read 3383 times)

Chris

Chris

Chris

Warrior_Monk

EYES_on_ZION