Author Topic: Goliath (Read 4437 times)

Minister Polarius · « **on:** November 14, 2010, 11:35:47 AM »

Is Goliath infinite CBN autoblock forever if the attacker has Wall of Protection up?

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #1 on:** November 14, 2010, 11:44:39 AM »

Goliath (P)
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Black • Ability: 10 / 10 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: Return all Heroes in battle to territory (except giant-slayers). Opponent may present a new Hero. Negate all band, draw, and play abilities. Cannot be negated. • Identifiers: OT Male Giant (Human), Philistia • Verse: I Samuel 17:44 • Availability: Promotional cards (2010 Regional Tournament)

No. He doesn't target their heroes to enter battle, but rather lets the opponent do something with their heroes that they normally wouldn't be able to.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #2 on:** November 14, 2010, 07:59:42 PM »

I just wanted to see the pic.

The M · « **Reply #3 on:** November 14, 2010, 08:08:12 PM »

Wait....What?!?!
Why is there a deer sticking out of his pants?

That's weird....

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #4 on:** November 14, 2010, 09:06:36 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on November 14, 2010, 11:44:39 AM

Goliath (P)
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Black • Ability: 10 / 10 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: Return all Heroes in battle to territory (except giant-slayers). Opponent may present a new Hero. Negate all band, draw, and play abilities. Cannot be negated. • Identifiers: OT Male Giant (Human), Philistia • Verse: I Samuel 17:44 • Availability: Promotional cards (2010 Regional Tournament)

No. He doesn't target their heroes to enter battle, but rather lets the opponent do something with their heroes that they normally wouldn't be able to.

Disagree.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #5 on:** November 14, 2010, 09:09:23 PM »

Quote from: The M on November 14, 2010, 08:08:12 PM

Wait....What?!?!
Why is there a deer sticking out of his pants?

That's weird....

It's not a deer. Goliath is simply missing his other identifier as a marsupial.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #6 on:** November 14, 2010, 09:11:36 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on November 14, 2010, 09:06:36 PM

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on November 14, 2010, 11:44:39 AM
Goliath (P)
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Black • Ability: 10 / 10 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: Return all Heroes in battle to territory (except giant-slayers). Opponent may present a new Hero. Negate all band, draw, and play abilities. Cannot be negated. • Identifiers: OT Male Giant (Human), Philistia • Verse: I Samuel 17:44 • Availability: Promotional cards (2010 Regional Tournament)

No. He doesn't target their heroes to enter battle, but rather lets the opponent do something with their heroes that they normally wouldn't be able to.
Disagree.

Since the opponent presents the new hero, Wall of Protection does not affect Goliath's SA.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #7 on:** November 14, 2010, 09:12:31 PM »

Goliath's SA is what's bringing the Hero into battle. Heroes can't just waltz into battle mid-battle for no reason.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #8 on:** November 14, 2010, 09:15:11 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on November 14, 2010, 09:12:31 PM

Goliath's SA is what's bringing the Hero into battle. Heroes can't just waltz into battle mid-battle for no reason.

Disagree.

Master KChief · « **Reply #9 on:** November 14, 2010, 09:20:39 PM »

i could see it going either way.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #10 on:** November 14, 2010, 09:22:52 PM »

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on November 14, 2010, 09:15:11 PM

Quote from: Minister Polarius on November 14, 2010, 09:12:31 PM
Goliath's SA is what's bringing the Hero into battle. Heroes can't just waltz into battle mid-battle for no reason.

Disagree.

Goliath's not bringing the Hero into battle? What is? Midichloreans?

Master KChief · « **Reply #11 on:** November 14, 2010, 09:24:57 PM »

so if this works then i guess older stuff like outburst of anger/temptation does as well.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #12 on:** November 14, 2010, 09:28:53 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on November 14, 2010, 09:22:52 PM

Goliath's not bringing the Hero into battle? What is?

"Opponent may" is an action taken by the other player. Goliath kicks the first heroes out of battle. I'm sure he would rather not have to face anyone else, but there is a condition to his ability that allows the other player to take an action if they want (or can).

Goliath opens the door, but your opponent has to walk through it.

Quote from: Minister Polarius on November 14, 2010, 09:22:52 PM

Midichloreans?

I've always wondered how to spell that.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #13 on:** November 14, 2010, 09:32:49 PM »

Um, so cards that say "opponent may" don't actually target the "opponent may" stuff? So if I'm Protected from Conversion on opponent's cards and you play Proclamation, I can still Convert instead? And if my deck is Protected from Discard on opponent's cards when someone plays Assyria Does Dastardly, I can still Discard from my deck instead?

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #14 on:** November 14, 2010, 09:35:03 PM »

You'll have to post abilities because I have no idea what you're talking about.

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #15 on:** November 14, 2010, 09:35:23 PM »

I would agree with YourMathTeacher, Goliath says Opponent may present a new blocker, suggesting the opponent is presenting it (thereby getting around Wall) however I can see Minister Polarius's side as well which is saying that it is Goliath's special ability that is allowing it to happen (thereby should be blocked by Wall).

But then again it would give a reason not to put wall in a deck (aside from better options) making Jael/Ashael choose the blockers slightly better.

So I'm ok with either side.

Cpt.Jaeger · « **Reply #16 on:** November 14, 2010, 09:38:48 PM »

I'm going to side with YMT, although i would prefer it the other way

The Guardian · « **Reply #17 on:** November 14, 2010, 09:55:06 PM »

I agree with YMT. On the other hand, if Polarius were correct, Lion Dwelling with the Calf just got way stronger.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #18 on:** November 14, 2010, 09:56:17 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on November 14, 2010, 09:06:36 PM

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on November 14, 2010, 11:44:39 AM
Goliath (P)
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Black • Ability: 10 / 10 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: Return all Heroes in battle to territory (except giant-slayers). Opponent may present a new Hero. Negate all band, draw, and play abilities. Cannot be negated. • Identifiers: OT Male Giant (Human), Philistia • Verse: I Samuel 17:44 • Availability: Promotional cards (2010 Regional Tournament)

No. He doesn't target their heroes to enter battle, but rather lets the opponent do something with their heroes that they normally wouldn't be able to.
Disagree.

Disagree with your disagree. Why? Because he's from 1st Sammmmmmmuel.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #19 on:** November 14, 2010, 10:20:08 PM »

Assyria Conquers Israel:
"Discard a Site or O.T. Fortress. Opponent may Discard X cards from top of deck instead."
So if you have JT out, you can still Discard to instead?

Centurion's Proclamation:
"Capture an EC. Opponent may Convert it instead."
If that's played on Judas, can you still Convert him?

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #20 on:** November 14, 2010, 10:30:34 PM »

Im not sure if The Darkness vs. WoP ruling has anything to do with this.

Wall of Protection (Ap)
Type: Fortress • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Place this site in your territory. No character in your territory may be brought into battle by an opponent. • Play As: Protect characters in your territory from opponents' banding abilities. • Identifiers: Play to territory. • Verse: I Kings 9:15 • Availability: Apostles booster packs (Ultra Rare)

The Darkness (AW)
Type: Fortress • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Place an Evil Character from hand face down here. If an opponent begins a rescue attempt and chooses a blocker (or is unblocked), you may reveal this evil character. Blocking player may add it to the battle. Otherwise return it face down. • Play As: Place an Evil Character from hand face down here. At the beginning of battle, if an opponent begins a rescue attempt and chooses a blocker (or is unblocked), you may reveal this Evil Character. Blocking player may add to battle the Evil Character else return it face down. The Darkness may hold one Evil Character. • Identifiers: Play to territory. • Verse: John 3:19 • Availability: Angel Wars booster packs (Ultra Rare)

Of course, I dont even remember the ruling so...

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #21 on:** November 14, 2010, 11:14:27 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on November 14, 2010, 10:20:08 PM

Assyria Conquers Israel:
"Discard a Site or O.T. Fortress. Opponent may Discard X cards from top of deck instead."
So if you have JT out, you can still Discard to instead?

Centurion's Proclamation:
"Capture an EC. Opponent may Convert it instead."
If that's played on Judas, can you still Convert him?

I would say yes on ACI, but no on Judas. Judas' SA protects from opponents' cards. JT protects from opponents' actions. There is a difference.

----------------------

All of this is moot anyway. I had no idea WoP had a Play As:

Wall of Protection (Ap)
Type: Fortress • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Place this site in your territory. No character in your territory may be brought into battle by an opponent. • Play As: Protect characters in your territory from opponents' banding abilities. • Identifiers: Play to territory. • Verse: I Kings 9:15 • Availability: Apostles booster packs (Ultra Rare)

Goliath's ability is not a banding ability.

Now, I already know you're going to refute any Play As from the REG, but the original WoP's SA protects from opponents' actions just like JT, which is not like Judas.

The Guardian · « **Reply #22 on:** November 14, 2010, 11:55:29 PM »

I never heard when that Play As got added...and it should really be errata because that completely changes Choose the Blocker situations.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #23 on:** November 15, 2010, 12:51:13 AM »

Wow, that is quite a change.

Cpt.Jaeger · « **Reply #24 on:** November 15, 2010, 02:48:39 AM »

Quote from: The Guardian on November 14, 2010, 11:55:29 PM

I never heard when that Play As got added...and it should really be errata because that completely changes Choose the Blocker situations.

so we are supposed to acknowledge and use the Play As?

News:

Author Topic: Goliath (Read 4437 times)

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo

Lamborghini_diablo