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Author Topic: Gold Shield V2.0  (Read 4150 times)

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Gold Shield V2.0
« on: May 13, 2009, 09:37:33 AM »
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Hey quick question on Gold Shield.

Scenario:
I have King Pekahiah sitting in territory with Gold Shield, I block and discard Shield to convert a hero to another brigade. I then play momentum change, bearing bad news and die.
Question:
Does Gold Shield get returned to my hand by Momentum change?

Gold Shield
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Gray • Ability: 0 / 5 • Class: Weapon • Special Ability: You may discard this card to convert a human Hero in play to a Hero in the brigade of your choice. • Attributes: Depicts a Weapon, Connected with David • Identifiers: OT, Depicts a Weapon, Connected with David • Verse: II Samuel 8:7 • Availability: Rock of Ages (Set 13)

Momentum Change
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Grey • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Return all Evil Enhancements except this one to holder's hand if Evil Character loses in battle. • Play As: Return all Evil Enhancements in this battle that were used by this Evil Character except this one to holder's hand if Evil Character loses in battle. • Identifiers: None • Verse: II Samuel 19:1-2 • Availability: Kings booster packs (Common)

Bearing Bad News
Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Grey • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: If a unique human Evil Character is discarded as a result of this battle, no Lost Soul may be rescued by a Hero this turn. • Play As: If a unique human Evil Character is discarded as a result of this battle, all Lost Souls are protected from being rescued by a Hero this turn. • Identifiers: None • Verse: II Samuel 18:32 • Availability: Kings booster packs (Common)

King Pekahiah
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Grey • Ability: 1 / 1 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: Discard King Pekahiah after battle if King Pekah is in play. • Identifiers: OT Male Human, King (Israel), Royalty, Fought Earthly Battle • Verse: II Kings 15:22 • Availability: Kings booster packs (Uncommon) • Background

Thanks,
RDT
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Gold Shield V2.0
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2009, 09:39:16 AM »
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No, Golden Shield would not return to your hand because it's not in play to be targeted when Momentum Change is played.
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Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: Gold Shield V2.0
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2009, 09:42:31 AM »
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Ok thats what I figured but I was curious because Momentum Change doesn't specify in play it just says all enhancements that were used in battle - Gold Shield was used in battle - And there is precedent for targeting cards in the discard pile (Negate-Last, etc.)
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Gold Shield V2.0
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2009, 10:29:57 AM »
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The default for all targets is cards in play. 

That's why Split Altar can't "do" the whole Artifact pile.  That's why AoCp doesn't get the face down character on The Darkness, your set aside ECs or ECs in your deck.
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Offline RTSmaniac

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Re: Gold Shield V2.0
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2009, 10:33:34 AM »
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as well as death of unrightous w/ pg panic demon right? Maybe not.
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: Gold Shield V2.0
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2009, 01:48:55 AM »
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Gabe, are you sure about this? I thought Withdraw cards had some sort of magical exemption for the "must be in play to be targeted" rule. I base this on the following...

Quote from: The REG-->Instant Abilities-->Withdraw from Battle-->Special Conditions
Cards that say “all enhancement cards played may be returned to the player’s hand” include cards played in this battle but were discarded.

Since Momentum Change is classified as a Withdraw from Battle card, I would have thought it would fall under this same condition.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 01:51:05 AM by EmJayBee83 »
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Gold Shield V2.0
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2009, 02:06:27 AM »
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Quote from: BrianGabe on May 13, 2009, 10:29:57 AM
That's why Split Altar can't "do" the whole Artifact pile.
Actually it does, courtesy the errata.
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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: Gold Shield V2.0
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2009, 02:15:37 AM »
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What errata? I don't even see Split Altar in the REG.
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The Schaef

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Re: Gold Shield V2.0
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2009, 06:54:19 AM »
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In fact, it was decided after much hand-wringing that Split Altar would be played as written, even though it took a major bite out of its intended effect.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: Gold Shield V2.0
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2009, 08:22:41 AM »
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Quote from: EmJayBee83 on May 14, 2009, 01:48:55 AM
Gabe, are you sure about this?

No, and your REG quote might indicate otherwise.

We still haven't gotten a standarded definition of what "played" means, but my understanding is that for a card to be "played" it has to be put into play from hand.  In the case of Golden Shield it was already on the king and only activated when he entered battle, it was not "played" in battle this turn.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 08:25:21 AM by BrianGabe »
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Offline crustpope

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Re: Gold Shield V2.0
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2009, 08:52:52 AM »
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I think of "played" as activated.  so placed cards would count as played IMO.  and I think that Gold Shield would come back as a result of Mo change given MJB's post.
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Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: Gold Shield V2.0
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2009, 09:53:33 AM »
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Quote from: crustpope on May 14, 2009, 08:52:52 AM
I think of "played" as activated.  so placed cards would count as played IMO.  and I think that Gold Shield would come back as a result of Mo change given MJB's post.

That was my understanding of the matter also, thus why I posted the question, just in case I was wrong.
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Offline SirNobody

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Re: Gold Shield V2.0
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2009, 04:35:34 PM »
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Hey,

The play as for Momentum Change says, "Return all Evil Enhancements in this battle that were..." so the default doesn't really apply.  Gold Shield is not "in this battle" so it is not returned to hand.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Offline Red Dragon Thorn

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Re: Gold Shield V2.0
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2009, 12:19:28 AM »
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Ack! Okay so I have Schaef, and MJB who think yes and Tim who thinks no - Gabe also leans no. Which way is this going to fly? What if It (Gold Shield) wasn't being held as a weapon but rather I played and discarded it what then?

Thanks,

RDT
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Offline Mr.Hiatus

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Re: Gold Shield V2.0
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2009, 12:38:09 AM »
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I think since it says convert and then discard you would discard meaning you could not get it back.
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: Gold Shield V2.0
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2009, 01:35:39 AM »
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Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on May 18, 2009, 12:19:28 AM
Ack! Okay so I have Schaef, and MJB who think yes and Tim who thinks no - Gabe also leans no. Which way is this going to fly?
FWIW, I took The Schaef's response as non-commital.

And, after reading Tim's post, I probably would move myself to the the Tim/Gabe camp. Comparing the two SAs, I can see Tim's point...

Mo Change: SA  Return all Evil Enhancements except this one to holder's hand if Evil Character loses in battle.

Trust/Highway/etc.: SA  Hero may withdraw from battle unharmed. All good enhancements played this battle may return to owner's hand except this one.


If it were me, I would probably modify the play as for Mo Change to read as the equivalent to Trust/Highway/etc. Because the difference in wording strikes me as a very slender reed to hang a big distinction on--and I would be in favor of doing away with it for consistency sake. Of course, evil cards are almost always made inferior to good cards, and I guess this is just another example of that principle.
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Offline Cameron the Conqueror

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Re: Gold Shield V2.0
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2009, 10:23:09 AM »
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Quote from: SirNobody on May 17, 2009, 04:35:34 PM
Hey,

The play as for Momentum Change says, "Return all Evil Enhancements in this battle that were..." so the default doesn't really apply.  Gold Shield is not "in this battle" so it is not returned to hand.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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