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Defeat is determined in Battle Resolution. Defeated characters are characters who participated in the losing side of a battle. The two are equivalent.
Hey,Quote from: The Schaef on August 13, 2008, 10:31:08 PMDefeat is determined in Battle Resolution. Defeated characters are characters who participated in the losing side of a battle. The two are equivalent.I disagree with this, among other things in your post. If Potiphar's Wife blocks a banding chain, converts one of them, and then looses the battle to the rest, she defeated the character she converted and would cause it to be captured despite the fact that it was not on the loosing side of battle.Tschow,Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly, WildCard Secretary of Defensewww.freewebs.com/redemptionne
people tend to lose credibility when its known they simply argue just for the sake of arguing.
I disagree with this, among other things in your post. If Potiphar's Wife blocks a banding chain, converts one of them, and then looses the battle to the rest, she defeated the character she converted and would cause it to be captured despite the fact that it was not on the loosing side of battle.
the top players have all made it known you indeed cannot use a negate-last card to interrupt the conversion
...while others close their ears to the voice of reason. so im already fairly confident which way the PTB will rule this. logic will always win over those who blow hot air all over the place. people tend to lose credibility when its known they simply argue just for the sake of arguing. it gets prety old, pretty quick.
Quote from: SirNobody on August 14, 2008, 12:10:40 AMI disagree with this, among other things in your post. If Potiphar's Wife blocks a banding chain, converts one of them, and then looses the battle to the rest, she defeated the character she converted and would cause it to be captured despite the fact that it was not on the loosing side of battle.Except this is not correct. If she loses, she captures no Heroes.
I'm also a little puzzled that you seem to want to define "the top players" as being limited to Gabe Isbell and Tim Maly (and one might assume, yourself);
I didn't want to embarrass the others by having you dwarf their presence.
"If a multi-color hero is in battle, hero is converted to one of the single brigades depicted on the hero."- Seeker would be able to interrupt in red, gold and blue.
Quote from: STAMP on August 14, 2008, 12:36:53 PM"If a multi-color hero is in battle, hero is converted to one of the single brigades depicted on the hero."- Seeker would be able to interrupt in red, gold and blue.One can already convert Seeker of the Lost into any single brigade (losing the three previous brigades).
I have responded to every point you have tried to make, using the facts and the rules.
If you attack with Jacob banded to Michael, I block with Potiphar's Wife, and I play Evil Spirit on Jacob. I then loose the battle and die. Did I stop Jacob from achieving his goal in battle? Sure seems like it to me, in which case by the very definition you quoted Potiphar's Wife defeated Jacob.
which doesn't make any sense because the second part of the definition of defeat was added _because_ of Potiphar's Wife's ability.
I believe these threads would be much more profitable and much shorter if you spent more time trying to understand the opposition's position and less time trying to respond to their every point.
I will be forced to disbelieve you entirely and disregard all comments you make on this thread.
Because with the level of skill and intellegance of the players that you disagree with, it is simply absurd to claim that they have not made a single valid point in nine pages.
You are not reading the definition of defeat correctly.
What I have not seen is a single example of a card, played against an opponent, which gives him initiative, but that character is unable to interrupt the last Enhancement played, provided a). he has an interrupt in hand which matches any brigade (immediately) previously or currently in battle, and b). the card CAN be interrupted. If someone has shown such an example, I must have missed it, and will welcome a correction.
I disagree.
Stalemate situation. Attacker plays Coat of Many Colors. Defender plays Disobedience to negate Coat of Many Colors. It is my understanding that at that point the attacker can only negate disobedience with a negate that does not depend on Coat of Many Colors to be playable.
You're welcome to have an opinion about anything you want, but it doesn't change the facts. Defeat is an end-of-battle condition. The winning characters defeat the losing characters.
So we disagree on this topic. Is there any chance that I am right and you are wrong?
Defeat is caused when a character’s toughness is less than or equal to an opposing character’s strength.
A defeat also occurs when a character is stopped from achieving his goal in battle.
A Hero(es) is defeated when the Hero(es) in battle are discarded, repelled or otherwise fails to make a successful rescue such as in a stalemate.
The Evil Character(s) is defeated when the Evil Character(s) in battle are discarded, ignored or otherwise fails to stop the Hero from making a successful rescue such as in a mutual destruction by numbers.
What we're talking about here is a new precedent since Golden Shield is the first card to convert a Hero but allow it to keep it's Hero status. In the past convert cards removed the character from battle which caused initiative to be passed. Since Golden Shield doesn't cause the character to leave battle and the SA does not (directly) cause them to lose, I would rule that the Hero does not get initiative to play an interrupt/negate in their prior brigade, only in the new brigade that is chosen by Golden Shield.