Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Declaration of intent is really dumb, IMO. My opponent shouldn't know what I'm about to do until I do it. He had plenty of time to DoN the artifact, but chose to wait to see if I'd activate a different one. I didn't. He shouldn't get a chance to go back.

But that's just my thoughts on things. I think it'd be much simpler to have an artifact phase by itself, either before the beginning of the preparation phase or just before the battle phase.

Quote from: RTSmaniac on December 07, 2012, 08:51:36 PM

A response is allowed between every separate phase.

No, it's not. There is no time between phases, they are fluid. You can only play cards in a specific phase.

I copied this from the online REG under the rulebook but its not in the 10th edition rulebook or the PDF REG so im not sure what to think. I value your opinion and knowlege of the game Westy so I'm a little confused as to what to think.

Even if it's confirmed that that's how it is, I think it should be changed.

Time between phases causes even more problems.

Example. You go through your preparation phase, and then give your opponent a chance to respond. He chooses to Mayhem you. Yet now you can't go back to your preparation phase--you already finished it. That just seems, well, lame and unstrategic.

Regardless, I also still hold that it's more strategic to not let your opponent know what you're doing. There's a difference between drawing three and throwing a hero onto the table and drawing three, putting characters down, doing other prep stuff, and then entering battle. Your opponent has had plenty of time to decide if he wanted to DoN your artifact, and he didn't. That was his choice.

The game would flow a lot more and waste less time if the phases were fluid, IMO.

My opponent shouldn't know what I'm about to do until I do it.

I'm not asking for that.  One player doesn't know whether their opponent is going to turn on a new artifact or leave the old one up for another turn.  They don't need to know ahead of time.  However AFTER their opponent chooses to activate a new artifact or leave the old one up, THEN they should have the opportunity to do something about it.

What you're proposing is that, if a person waited 30 seconds between their last action and entering the battle phase, but didn't say "I'm leaving up my current artifact," as soon as he put forth a character, his opponent could then cry foul and insist he wanted to play a dominant.

Again, I'm not saying that.  I'm just saying that if a player wants to play DoN on the artifact that their opponent is choosing for the current turn, that they should have the ability to do that.  If a player specifically tells their opponent to let them know when they have chosen their artifact, that already gives an advantage to their opponent because now they know that there is a DoN in their opponent's hand.  That's the risk you take by asking to be informed.  However if you ask to be informed, then your opponent MUST give you the chance to respond to their choice of artifact.

I think it would be better practice to declare you are entering the battle phase:

Prep Phase: Do stuff.

Me: "Battle phase?"

U: "Sure."

Battle Phase: Hero enters battle.

or it could be...

Prep Phase: Do stuff.

Me: "Battle phase?"

U: "In response to your battle phase, I Destruction your Gifts."

Me: more prep phase stuff. "Battle phase?"
 
U: "In response to your battle phase, I play Mayhem."

Me: more prep phase stuff. "Battle phase?"

U: Sure.

Battle Phase: Hero enters battle.

Why exactly is making your opponent make a strategic choice, rather than hand them an opportunity with zero risk, a bad thing?

It's better than just slapjacking a hero into battle without giving the opponent a chance to respond to your actions.

How is that possibly less convoluted than what we're suggesting?

Again, it's NOT slapjack. They could have played a dominant at any time during a 30 minute long preparation phase. If I choose not to do my artifact phase, then they suffer the consequences.

We should just legislate phases out of the game. They are confusion waiting to happen.

Pretty certain you have to 'do' your artifact activation, even if you leave the same one up.

Exactly.  And you have to allow your opponent to respond to that choice.

I think beginning the battle phase should be a part of the preparation phase so the phases are fluid. I don't understand how else I move from the preparation phase to the battle phase otherwise.

Quote from: Chris on December 07, 2012, 11:36:04 PM

The argument I'm making is that discourages strategic play, and isn't conductive of seamless turns and gameplay.

Aren't we actually here because of the whole slapjack/rushing phases/priority response mess in the first place? Failing to see how this is seamless gameplay. I'm not a fan of things that yield unclear situations and are open to different interpretations, which is where Dominants are firmly grounded. Clear intent of what you're actually doing on your turn, albeit ever so slightly more time consuming, creates streamlined gameflow with little room for ambiguous gameplay. Although I was a big fan of the whole rule change about being free to do anything in however order you wish during your prep phase, I must agree an actual absolute Artifact activation phase was the better way to go.

Here's the way I describe it with declaration.
During the preparation phase: "Can I go onto battle phase?"
Still preparation phase: "Is that the artifact you're going to leave up?"
More preparation phase: "If you allow me to go to battle phase, yes."
Yeah, preparation phase: "Then I will DoN it."
Because we're still in prep phase: "Okay, because I haven't done my artifact activation yet, I'll activate XYZ. Now can we go to battle phase?"
"Sure."

It's conditional on the action they take, not on the passiveness you have. If there is time between phases (which I think is stupid), then this is obviously not the case. If there isn't (so the phases are fluid), then I don't see how this is complicated.

The alternative:
During the preparation phase: "Can I go onto battle phase?"
Still preparation phase: "Is that the artifact you're going to leave up?"
More preparation phase: "If you allow me to go to battle phase, yes."
Yeah, preparation phase: "Well, is it or isn't it?."
prep phase: "That depends if anything else happens."
You get the phase..."I won't let anything else happen until you decide."
Obstinant prep phase "Well, if you're going to do something, I'll obviously switch, but until then, I'm going to assume I can proceed."
Same phase "no. Decide now, are you or aren't you?"
Phasing talk "Why are you forcing me into a decision"
I'm really done with this: "Because I can."