Author Topic: The Reasoning Behind "Old Clarifier Language"  (Read 996 times)

Offline Minister Polarius

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The Reasoning Behind "Old Clarifier Language"
« on: May 30, 2016, 12:04:52 PM »
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At one point, we decided to do a massive errata on dozens of cards that were printed before wording was standardized. At the time, this made sense, and Redemption did not have very complicated or diverse Special Abilities, so it was fine to just say "oh well Plague of Flies wasn't meant to have a Discard ability, it just tells you what to do with characters that reach 0 defense." Everyone accepted it at the time, but in the future we now have much more complex and diverse abilities, and "if character reaches */0 or less, Discard that character" could easily be an actual Special Ability. "Only a Rescue Attempt of two or more Heroes may be successful," while it would need to be play-as'd to "Protect Lost Souls from Rescue by a lone Hero," is also a possible real ability.

The only reason we've done away with these additional abilities on many old cards is that they weren't intended to do that at the time. Our policy today is to not errata cards because they ended up doing something unintended unless they're not functioning as printed. What benefit is there to having scores of old cards, some of which would likely be usable with their full ability, play differently than what the card reads? Unless there is some huge offender (who we could just give specific errata to since its currently errata'd anyway), as I see it the only benefit to the sweeping "clarifying language" class of errata is none benefit, at the downside of having many more cards a new player needs to obtain special knowledge about (and to be honest, in preparing for this thread I have not been able to find a list of this class of errata) to play properly.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: The Reasoning Behind "Old Clarifier Language"
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2016, 01:14:46 PM »
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Unless there is some huge offender...
The best example of a card that would fall in the "huge offender" category is Angry Mob (Ap). Turn an opponent's entire offense face down and leave them that way?!?  Awesome-sauce.

Of course I have never felt that the Angry Mob issue was due to clarifying language. It was due strictly to sloppy wording, and should have been fixed with an errata.

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: The Reasoning Behind "Old Clarifier Language"
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2016, 01:59:05 PM »
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Doesn't Angry Mob actually have errata? Like, errata errata.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: The Reasoning Behind "Old Clarifier Language"
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2016, 02:08:18 PM »
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Doesn't Angry Mob actually have errata? Like, errata errata.
They have one defining "not in battle" to mean "in territory and set aside." They have nothing which says that you should turn the heroes face up again afterwards.

Offline Gabe

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Re: The Reasoning Behind "Old Clarifier Language"
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2016, 05:52:20 PM »
+1
John Earley tried that logic train at Nationals a few years back. Ask him how that turned out. ::)
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: The Reasoning Behind "Old Clarifier Language"
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2016, 06:59:15 PM »
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John Earley tried that logic train at Nationals a few years back. Ask him how that turned out. ::)
Yeah, it was ruled to be "clarifying language," which is the topic of Pol's thread.

Did you have anything you wanted to add beyond the "it was ruled to be clarifying language?" Specifically anything that warrants the eye roll?

Offline Gabe

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Re: The Reasoning Behind "Old Clarifier Language"
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2016, 07:16:57 PM »
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Did you have anything you wanted to add...

There's nothing the recent barrage of "old wording" threads I care to discuss. Some of the same people who would like the elders to spend time addressing the broad issue of "implied special abilities" would also have us chasing our tails over individual cards because they want to nitpick old wording and past rulings. One is worth my time investment. One is not right now.

I understand the desire to find a loophole you can exploit. The point of my prior post is that others have tried to exploit old cards with poor language and failed. I find it highly unlikely that anyone will get a ruling in their favor on that now.

Will we ever go back and issue "play as" or errata for all the old cards? Probably. There's a project under way but with thousands of cards it's moving at a snails pace.

Pol specifically has burnt a few bridges with his hostile and negative demeanor. I personally don't have any problem talking to him. He has my number if he every has any questions. Discoursing with him specifically over this medium seems unfruitful.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: The Reasoning Behind "Old Clarifier Language"
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2016, 09:27:49 AM »
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And in doing so finally got more people who hate the rule change to speak up. It pains me that that's what it takes to get the PTB to do anything.

I agree that this is a lower-priority issue in the grand scheme of making the game more accessible, but I thoroughly resent the implication that my reason for wanting this change has anything to do with a particular card or "exploit" anything. Especially since the stupid Heal rule change would be of great benefit to me and my playstyle if it is not reverted, yet I'm willing to take Dwaine's wrath to try to get it fixed anyway. You can disagree that this simplifying measure should be enacted, or with my tactics in debate, but you should know me better than to think my reason is anything other than what I have explicitly stated.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

 


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