Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Wonderful!!!

ok so just wanna be clear are we saying they have to target gates as its doing the decrease or is it able to be stopped by negating omri's search thats my question.

You cannot play a card that simply negates Omri's search ability, because Omri isn't the card removing the hero from battle, Gates of Samaria is. You have to target Gates.

Oh and what about my very last question. I kind of forgot about it....

You guys are getting the rulings mixed up. The reason you can't use FaaMS is because it only targets occupied sites. It was ruled (correctly) that while you have special initiative, the site is not occupied because the capture has not yet completed. If the site were to be occupied, then the window for interruption would have passed. This has nothing to do with a general rule but the nature of how a specific card targets.

WT.??  Is it double secret special initiative now that you can use it during the time it takes to complete an instant special ability??  Good grief.

Herod’s Dungeon (TP)
Type: Site • Brigade: White • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: While blocking with a Herod while this Site is unoccupied, you may capture a male human Hero with strength 7/* or greater and place it here. When you block with Herodias, you may discard a captured Hero. • Identifiers: Israel • Verse: Matthew 14:3

Faith as a Mustard Seed (Di)
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Purple/Yellow • Ability: 3 / 2 • Class: None • Special Ability: If used by a N.T. Hero, interrupt an occupied Site, an evil Enhancement, or a non-human Evil Character and remove it from the game. • Identifiers: NT, Spiritual Gift • Verse: Luke 17:6

Well, Stamp, consider this situation. Timothy is in battle, defender plays Coliseum Lions, discarding Timothy. Timothy plays Words of Encouragement and then Resurrection (search discard pile for an NT Hero, add to hand or battle). You wouldn't be able to target Timothy with Resurrection, because he's not in the discard pile yet (he's in battle playing that enhancement).

It's the same principle for Herod's Dungeon and Faith like Mustard. The site's not occupied if the thing supposedly occupying the site is in battle eating mustard!

It's because it's not occupied yet. You're losing by removal, yes, but you have not been removed yet, unless you're proposing that I can play an enhancement from a site.

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on December 28, 2011, 03:01:54 PM

It's because it's not occupied yet. You're losing by removal, yes, but you have not been removed yet, unless you're proposing that I can play an enhancement from a site.

Let's clarify things a bit.  Y'all are arguing from the perspective that the instant ability has not completed when checking for speical initiative.  I'm not.

The point of an interrupt is that it interrupts the instant ability, meaning before it would go to the site.

Yea, at any point, Opponent is allowed to Interrupt/Negate Gates but not the Battle. No player may Interrupt the Battle (because an effect outside of Battle is resolving) though.

Even so, Mustard Seed requires the Site to be occupied which means that the only way u can play it is after the effect is completed. You cannot Interrupt it Mustard Seed because it's unoccupied. This is the only reason why Mustard Seed cannot stop HD.

And no, I had asked about if I negate Omni would it stop Gates and the answer is no apparently. Because Gates' effect still goes through even if Samaria gets shuffled back into their Decks. I believe it's the same reason why if u Negate a Interrupt/+3/play next The card that was played by it still works.

Quote from: STAMP on December 28, 2011, 03:03:42 PM

Let's clarify things a bit.  Y'all are arguing from the perspective that the instant ability has not completed when checking for speical initiative.  I'm not.

The ability has completed. And then the interrupt says it hasn't: "Interrupt is used to temporarily stop a previously completed card’s special ability until the special ability on the interrupt card is completed." - REG

It was completed, but if an interrupt is played then the ability has once again reached the "non-completed" state. So Herod's Dungeon isn't an occupied site if you try to interrupt it.

No, Interrupt doesn't mean the effect is already completed. The Redemption Rulebook notes that it stops the effect thats being 'Interrupted' for the card to use it's effect. (In this Case remove an Occupied Site from the game) then if the Interrupted card was not removed from play, its effect completes.

Herod's Dungeon doesn't complete it's effect if you play Mustard Seed on the Character being Captured.

no i think your misunderstanding me what im saying is i have omri and gates i use omri to decrease some other hero besides the rescuer and i end up with initive if i then play an itb like wickedness of the tenants or korahs rebellion have i interrupted omri sending the site back and still maintain the decrease because itb doesn't effect gates.

If u Interrupt the Battle, Omri's effect has already completed so no, it's does not go back. Only if Omni was Negated does it go back. The current ruling is that if Omri is Negated, Gates still completes. Personally I disagree with this, but that's the rule.
But the only way to reset that is to shuffle your Sites. (Usually people used Death of Unrightous for that)

I may be confused about this, so bear with me a moment. My understanding is that the reason negating Omri is not enough, is that special initiative only extends to attempting to stop the card that is directly responsible. Is this not the case?

Quote from: STAMP on December 28, 2011, 03:03:42 PM

Let's clarify things a bit.  Y'all are arguing from the perspective that the instant ability has not completed when checking for speical initiative.  I'm not.

The ability has completed. And then the interrupt says it hasn't: "Interrupt is used to temporarily stop a previously completed card’s special ability until the special ability on the interrupt card is completed." - REG

It was completed, but if an interrupt is played then the ability has once again reached the "non-completed" state. So Herod's Dungeon isn't an occupied site if you try to interrupt it.

Very true, but the remove occurs at the same time as the interrupt and is privy to the occupied trigger:

Faith as a Mustard Seed (Di)
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Purple/Yellow • Ability: 3 / 2 • Class: None • Special Ability: If used by a N.T. Hero, interrupt an occupied Site, an evil Enhancement, or a non-human Evil Character and remove it from the game. • Identifiers: NT, Spiritual Gift • Verse: Luke 17:6