Author Topic: Gates of Samaria in battle. (Read 7437 times)

CJSports · « **on:** December 27, 2011, 01:36:27 PM »

If you make a rescue attempt with a hero with less than six defense and I block with Jezebel to King Ahab to play Land Purchase which brings out a Samaria site. I choose to decrease the attacking hero. Now with the new decrease rule the hero is dying. So....

1. Can he interrupt the battle with something like words of encouragement

2. Does he have to interrupt the fortress itself via Samuel's Edict or something that negates an evil card

3. Can he not do anything

Also, if the same hero had played an enhancement earlier that same battle that had increased his abilities past 6/6, would he still die immediately (or after battle)?

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #1 on:** December 27, 2011, 03:59:37 PM »

This is my understanding of the rules, keeping in mind I've never heard this fully clarified. You could interrupt the battle, but you would have to negate Gate of Samaria, since it's the one doing the actual decreasing.

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #2 on:** December 27, 2011, 04:05:14 PM »

ok if gate is the one doing the decreasing is this diffrent in case of king omri if his search gets negated the samaria never happened or?

SomeKittens · « **Reply #3 on:** December 27, 2011, 04:24:22 PM »

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on December 27, 2011, 03:59:37 PM

This is my understanding of the rules, keeping in mind I've never heard this fully clarified. You could interrupt the battle, but you would have to negate Gate of Samaria, since it's the one doing the actual decreasing.

If you're being discarded/captured/etc, you must interrupt/negate whatever is doing the discard/capture/etc. If I Writ you, you can't play Reach just to get the D3, because it only interrupts the battle, not discarded artifacts (or GoS in this case). This is the same case. If you were attempting to kill my James, SoA, I could play MLaMG to kill Gates. I couldn't play Reach or Passover Hymn.

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 27, 2011, 05:09:39 PM »

ok so then going by that if omri blocks and fetches a samaria they still have to negate gates to save themselves not omri ?

SomeKittens · « **Reply #5 on:** December 27, 2011, 05:12:18 PM »

That would be correct. Omri's ability is not the one doing the remove from battle.

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 27, 2011, 05:21:17 PM »

ok now to follow that logic one step further i thought cards affecting a battle but not actually in battle were either cbn or cbi etc see herods dungeon last year

CJSports · « **Reply #7 on:** December 27, 2011, 05:26:13 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on December 27, 2011, 04:24:22 PM

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on December 27, 2011, 03:59:37 PM
This is my understanding of the rules, keeping in mind I've never heard this fully clarified. You could interrupt the battle, but you would have to negate Gate of Samaria, since it's the one doing the actual decreasing.
If you're being discarded/captured/etc, you must interrupt/negate whatever is doing the discard/capture/etc. If I Writ you, you can't play Reach just to get the D3, because it only interrupts the battle, not discarded artifacts (or GoS in this case). This is the same case. If you were attempting to kill my James, SoA, I could play MLaMG to kill Gates. I couldn't play Reach or Passover Hymn.

This is how I would rule it and how I thought it would work, but I still would like to hear an elder even though kittens is normaly a sound source.

Quote from: christiangamer25 on December 27, 2011, 05:21:17 PM

Finally, what about my last question???

As for this, I never heard about it and if this is so their definitely needs to be changed unless their is so underlying logic.
ok now to follow that logic one step further i thought cards affecting a battle but not actually in battle were either cbn or cbi etc see herods dungeon last year

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #8 on:** December 27, 2011, 07:22:12 PM »

That's never been a rule. Demanding to hear from an Elder about that is like insisting that an Elder tell you you don't turn a card face-down when it's captured.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #9 on:** December 27, 2011, 09:02:17 PM »

Pol, what exactly has never been a rule?

SomeKittens · « **Reply #10 on:** December 27, 2011, 10:58:46 PM »

Quote from: christiangamer25 on December 27, 2011, 05:21:17 PM

ok now to follow that logic one step further i thought cards affecting a battle but not actually in battle were either cbn or cbi etc see herods dungeon last year

As far as I know, there wasn't a card that could negate Herod's Dungeon last year (Though I'm historically wrong on this sort of thing.)

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #11 on:** December 28, 2011, 01:09:17 AM »

im not saying there was im saying using it was ruled as cbi so gates should get the same treatment

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #12 on:** December 28, 2011, 02:46:12 AM »

Quote from: christiangamer25 on December 28, 2011, 01:09:17 AM

im not saying there was im saying using it was ruled as cbi so gates should get the same treatment ^{[citation needed]}

Josh · « **Reply #13 on:** December 28, 2011, 08:01:03 AM »

Quote from: christiangamer25 on December 28, 2011, 01:09:17 AM

im not saying there was im saying using it was ruled as cbi so gates should get the same treatment

Are you thinking of the ruling where a NT gold/purple hero couldn't use Faith as a Mustard Seed to interrupt Herod's Dungeon when captured? If so, the ruling was pretty simple: once HD activated, allowing it to be interrupted (since it's not CBI/CBN), at that point the hero was captured and couldn't use FaaMS. It had nothing to do with HD being CBI/CBN.

CJSports · « **Reply #14 on:** December 28, 2011, 09:56:57 AM »

But then with that interpretation wouldn't it be the same with Gates of Samaria. I don't agree with it, I'm just curious... because then you could say that with all cards capturing/discarding/etc. the hero and he couldn't do anything about it so I don't think that is correct.

STAMP · « **Reply #15 on:** December 28, 2011, 11:56:46 AM »

Quote from: jmhartz on December 28, 2011, 08:01:03 AM

once HD activated, allowing it to be interrupted (since it's not CBI/CBN), at that point the hero was captured and couldn't use FaaMS. It had nothing to do with HD being CBI/CBN.

You mean when it's not special initiative, right?

Josh · « **Reply #16 on:** December 28, 2011, 12:25:41 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on December 28, 2011, 11:56:46 AM

Quote from: jmhartz on December 28, 2011, 08:01:03 AM
once HD activated, allowing it to be interrupted (since it's not CBI/CBN), at that point the hero was captured and couldn't use FaaMS. It had nothing to do with HD being CBI/CBN.

You mean when it's not special initiative, right?

The only way to target HD with FaaMS after capture while still in battle is to have 2 or more heroes in battle before capture. And there's no special initiative that transfers at HD capture, because the card causing the removal from battle was not added to battle.

This is kinda off point. I was just wondering if Matt was thinking, based on this specific ruling, that HD was CBI/CBN and therefore Gates of Samaria was too.

STAMP · « **Reply #17 on:** December 28, 2011, 12:41:17 PM »

Actually it impacts GoS, too. Anytime you gain special initiative, you can play a negate to negate the SA that causes the special initiative as long as it can be targeted. I have a lone NT gold/purple hero in battle, you block with a Herod and use HD's SA, I have special initiative and can play a gold/purple negate to negate HD, which in this example is FaaMS.

The same can be done with GoS.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #18 on:** December 28, 2011, 01:07:12 PM »

You guys are getting the rulings mixed up. The reason you can't use FaaMS is because it only targets occupied sites. It was ruled (correctly) that while you have special initiative, the site is not occupied because the capture has not yet completed. If the site were to be occupied, then the window for interruption would have passed. This has nothing to do with a general rule but the nature of how a specific card targets.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #19 on:** December 28, 2011, 01:14:07 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on December 28, 2011, 01:07:12 PM

You guys are getting the rulings mixed up. The reason you can't use FaaMS is because it only targets occupied sites. It was ruled (correctly) that while you have special initiative, the site is not occupied because the capture has not yet completed. If the site were to be occupied, then the window for interruption would have passed. This has nothing to do with a general rule but the nature of how a specific card targets.

Thank you for clarifying that. I didn't know the exact wording on FaaMS (I thought it was just "site"), so I was getting really confused.

megamanlan · « **Reply #20 on:** December 28, 2011, 01:22:41 PM »

Yea, Mustard Seed can only Interrupt Occupied Sites, if u played a card that Negates a Site then u could.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #21 on:** December 28, 2011, 01:32:30 PM »

You COULD however, use Trumpet and Sword if a tabernacle priest was out.

I've stopped Herod's Dungeon with that card quite a few times. I'd also argue that you could play T&S to stop Gates if Omri blocks.

Quote

If a Tabernacle priest is in play, negate and discard a single-color Site or evil Fortress. Discard up to X human Evil Characters.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #22 on:** December 28, 2011, 01:34:10 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on December 28, 2011, 01:32:30 PM

You COULD however, use Trumpet and Sword if a tabernacle priest was out.

I've stopped Herod's Dungeon with that card quite a few times. I'd also argue that you could play T&S to stop Gates if Omri blocks.

I'd agree, for the same reason My Lord and My God can target Gates of Samaria.

CJSports · « **Reply #23 on:** December 28, 2011, 01:34:59 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on December 28, 2011, 01:32:30 PM

You COULD however, use Trumpet and Sword if a tabernacle priest was out.

I've stopped Herod's Dungeon with that card quite a few times. I'd also argue that you could play T&S to stop Gates if Omri blocks.

Quote
If a Tabernacle priest is in play, negate and discard a single-color Site or evil Fortress. Discard up to X human Evil Characters.

That's how I interpreted it...

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #24 on:** December 28, 2011, 01:52:28 PM »

Quote from: CJSports on December 28, 2011, 01:34:59 PM

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on December 28, 2011, 01:32:30 PM
You COULD however, use Trumpet and Sword if a tabernacle priest was out.

I've stopped Herod's Dungeon with that card quite a few times. I'd also argue that you could play T&S to stop Gates if Omri blocks.

Quote
If a Tabernacle priest is in play, negate and discard a single-color Site or evil Fortress. Discard up to X human Evil Characters.
That's how I interpreted it...

That sounds good to me.

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Author Topic: Gates of Samaria in battle. (Read 7437 times)

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy

Lamborghini_diablo

Chronic Apathy