Author Topic: Gates of Jerusalem (Read 3004 times)

Josh · « **on:** March 07, 2018, 10:15:46 PM »

Do Gates' CBN/Draw abilities trigger when you block with a King/Queen of Judah from hand?

Gates of Jerusalem - "Protect evil Kings and Queens of Judah in your territory from opponent's cards. If one blocks, its special ability cannot be negated and you may draw a card."

Kevinthedude · « **Reply #1 on:** March 07, 2018, 10:32:47 PM »

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #2 on:** March 07, 2018, 10:33:48 PM »

Kevinthedude · « **Reply #3 on:** March 07, 2018, 10:36:01 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on March 07, 2018, 10:33:48 PM

No.

Why? Are ECs not considered in play when they block? Unless I'm completely misreading the card and the in territory requirement is somehow tacked onto the second ability. If the only cards that are considered to trigger the second ability are "evil Kings and Queens of Judah in your territory" then it would never trigger because when they block they are no longer "evil Kings and Queens of Judah in your territory" since by that point it would be an "evil Kings and Queens of Judah in battle".

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #4 on:** March 07, 2018, 10:44:22 PM »

It's been ruled that the "If one" refers specifically to those in your territory that Gates references in the first ability

Kevinthedude · « **Reply #5 on:** March 07, 2018, 10:55:57 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on March 07, 2018, 10:44:22 PM

It's been ruled that the "If one" refers specifically to those in your territory that Gates references in the first ability

If the second part wanted to make that qualification would it not need to say something like "If one blocks from territory"? How can an EC trigger an ability that requires it to be in territory when the EC is in battle?

Asahel24601 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 07, 2018, 11:45:01 PM »

Quote from: Kevinthedude on March 07, 2018, 10:55:57 PM

If the second part wanted to make that qualification would it not need to say something like "If one blocks from territory"? How can an EC trigger an ability that requires it to be in territory when the EC is in battle?

According to the ORCID, the play as reads as follows:

Quote from: ORCID

Play As: Protect evil kings and queens of Judah in territory from opponent's cards. If a king or queen of Judah in territory blocks, it cannot be negated, and you may draw 1.

Link to the document is here.

The Guardian · « **Reply #7 on:** March 08, 2018, 02:00:09 AM »

Watchman · « **Reply #8 on:** March 08, 2018, 06:57:06 AM »

Why does it even matter if it blocks from hand or from territory anyways? Why not keep it simple and let the ability work either way as the wording of Gates could go either way. Was the original intent meant for those specifically in territory? If so, why?

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 08, 2018, 09:22:40 AM »

I mean, if you wanted to read it like that what's stopping the ability from working with your opponent's Kings and Queens of Judah?

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 08, 2018, 09:48:18 AM »

Quote from: TheHobbit on March 08, 2018, 09:22:40 AM

I mean, if you wanted to read it like that what's stopping the ability from working with your opponent's Kings and Queens of Judah?

That would be awesome! Why, yes... Your Judean King/Queen does get to block CBN, but if they do I get to draw a card.

Watchman · « **Reply #11 on:** March 08, 2018, 09:53:12 AM »

Quote from: TheHobbit on March 08, 2018, 09:22:40 AM

I mean, if you wanted to read it like that what's stopping the ability from working with your opponent's Kings and Queens of Judah?

Why not? Chances are your opponent won’t be using a Judean defense. Even if they did there are other Forts and other cards that affect (where both players would benefit) both players anyways.

TheJaylor · « **Reply #12 on:** March 08, 2018, 10:01:57 AM »

I think it's always made more sense the way it is ruled. You get to that part and read "If one..." and then think 'If one what?'. Looking back, it says "Kings and Queens of Judah in your territory." I can't think of any other examples at the moment but it just seems more logical that the location would stick.

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on March 08, 2018, 09:48:18 AM

Quote from: TheHobbit on March 08, 2018, 09:22:40 AM
I mean, if you wanted to read it like that what's stopping the ability from working with your opponent's Kings and Queens of Judah?
That would be awesome! Why, yes... Your Judean King/Queen does get to block CBN, but if they do I get to draw a card.

Just use a Judean defense with a choose the blocker offense.

The Guardian · « **Reply #13 on:** March 08, 2018, 10:04:47 AM »

If the card were meant to apply to opponent's K/Q of Judah, it would have said "K/Q of Judah in territories."

If it were meant to apply to K/Q of Judah from hand (or deck/Reserve via Deceiver) it would have said "If your K/Q of Judah blocks."

TheJaylor · « **Reply #14 on:** March 08, 2018, 10:28:33 AM »

Quote from: The Guardian on March 08, 2018, 10:04:47 AM

If the card were meant to apply to opponent's K/Q of Judah, it would have said "K/Q of Judah in territories."

I think the point they were making was that if "one" simply referred to a King or Queen of Judah then when opponent blocked with one it's ability would be CBN and you'd get to D1, not that it would be protected.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 08, 2018, 11:05:00 AM »

I was just pointing out the arbitrary inclusion of "your" to the interpretation of "if one blocks" as referring to your Kings and Queens of Judah when it doesn't read that way on the ability. Nor does the ability imply that it works with opponent's Kings and Queens of Judah.

The Guardian · « **Reply #16 on:** March 08, 2018, 11:42:52 AM »

That's a good point, it doesn't actually need to be "your" K/Q of Judah. If you take a K/Q of Judah from opponent with First Seal, it would get CBN and the draw bonus from Gates.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 08, 2018, 11:57:56 AM »

I was just pointing out that I am a sucker for cards that give your opponent the option of taking a real benefit while also carrying a significant downside.

I wasn't suggesting GoJ is one of those cards.

The Guardian · « **Reply #18 on:** March 08, 2018, 12:07:31 PM »

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on March 08, 2018, 11:57:56 AM

I was just pointing out that I am a sucker for cards that give your opponent the option of taking a real benefit while also carrying a significant downside.

I wasn't suggesting GoJ is one of those cards.

Hey, I'm all for those types of cards as well.

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Author Topic: Gates of Jerusalem (Read 3004 times)

TheHobbit13

TheHobbit13