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Author Topic: Arioch  (Read 1220 times)

Offline Praeceps

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Arioch
« on: March 10, 2012, 10:49:35 AM »
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Can you discard a captured male human hero to fulfill the special ability of Arioch  (FF)?
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Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Arioch
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2012, 10:51:37 AM »
+1
As far as I know, characters retain their identifiers when captured, so yes.
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: Arioch
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2012, 01:05:51 AM »
+1
Unless this has been overturned in the past six months--the answer is...

No, captured human heroes cannot be discarded to satisfy Arioch's SA. If it makes you feel better, however, a captured prophet does prevent Arioch's SA from kicking in. This ruling was from Bryon and is official (unless--as I stated at the top--it has been overturned in the past six months).

If you want to see a follow-up where Gabe reconfirms the ruling check...

Quote from: Gabe on October 17, 2009, 01:51:51 PM
It's been ruled that Arioch cannot discard a captured character from the land of bondage.  I seem to recall the reason being that the captured character is treated as a Lost Soul.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Arioch
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2012, 08:34:45 PM »
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I thought this had been overturned. I remember there was a discussion about how captured characters can retain their identifiers, but only for the purposes of some cards and how inconsistent that was. I can't point to a specific thread it was overturned in, but regardless, it needs to be decided once and for all whether captured characters retain identifiers.
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Offline STAMP

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Re: Arioch
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2012, 11:06:50 PM »
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For those with less-than-optimal browsers:

Quote from: REG
Arioch (FF)
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Crimson • Ability: 10 / 7 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: If opponent does not have a prophet in play, you may discard a male human from your territory to place a Lost Soul beneath owner’s deck. • Identifiers: OT Male Human, Commander (Babylonia), Fought Earthly Battle • Verse: Daniel 2:14

Captured characters may trip triggers with identifiers but may not be targeted by an SA unless it specifies "captured".

Period.
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Arioch
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2012, 11:34:31 PM »
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I think the ruling that Pol is thinking of is that identifiers are retained for purposes of "seeing", but not for "targeting".

Therefore, if a Babylonian is captured, then it would still count as a Babylonian for cards that say something like, "If a Babylonian is in play, draw a card".  However, it would NOT be able to be targeted by a card that says, "Discard a Babylonian".

At least that's the way I remember things ending up.
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Offline STAMP

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Re: Arioch
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2012, 11:36:50 PM »
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Arioch
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2012, 11:42:03 PM »
+2
Quote from: Prof Underwood on March 12, 2012, 11:34:31 PM
I think the ruling that Pol is thinking of is that identifiers are retained for purposes of "seeing", but not for "targeting".

Therefore, if a Babylonian is captured, then it would still count as a Babylonian for cards that say something like, "If a Babylonian is in play, draw a card".  However, it would NOT be able to be targeted by a card that says, "Discard a Babylonian".

At least that's the way I remember things ending up.
Which is needlessly confusing and arbitrary.
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: Arioch
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2012, 11:46:24 PM »
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Quote from: Prof Underwood on March 12, 2012, 11:34:31 PM
I think the ruling that Pol is thinking of is that identifiers are retained for purposes of "seeing", but not for "targeting".
This is precisely what I was referring to with the note that a captured Prophet stopped Arioch cold. Bryon called it "look-atting" as opposed to "seeing," but that is the ruling.

This was back before the elder system, when a Bryon ruling was definitive. So this is as official as it comes.
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