Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Josh on May 28, 2013, 12:47:06 PM
-
CARD NAME: Foreign Spearman
CARD TYPE: Evil Character
CLASS: Warrior
IDENTIFIERS: Generic
STATS: 6/6
BRIGADE COLOR: Multi-color
SPECIAL ABILITY: While blocking alone, toss all enhancements that are played this battle. Cannot be interrupted.
Scenario: I block with Archers of Kedar and band to Foreign Spearman. FS is equipped with Two Thousand Horses, which activate normally. I play Haman's Plot to discard two of my opponent's characters and my Archers of Kedar.
Now we are tossing enhancements; does 2KH get tossed immediately now, or just sit in battle?
-
You would start tossing after the Archers is discarded. So Two Thousand Horses would stay in battle, because it was played before the condition for tossing enhancements was met.
Basically Tossing doesn't retroactively toss enhancements, it only tosses them at the time they are played.
-
Insteads, like CBN, do not retroactively accomplish anything. The instead was not active when 2KH was played so FS cannot retroactively toss it instead.
*instaposted*
-
CARD NAME: Foreign Spearman
CARD TYPE: Evil Character
CLASS: Warrior
IDENTIFIERS: Generic
STATS: 6/6
BRIGADE COLOR: Multi-color
SPECIAL ABILITY: While blocking alone, toss all enhancements that are played this battle. Cannot be interrupted.
Scenario: I block with Archers of Kedar and band to Foreign Spearman. FS is equipped with Two Thousand Horses, which activate normally. I play Haman's Plot to discard two of my opponent's characters and my Archers of Kedar.
Now we are tossing enhancements; does 2KH get tossed immediately now, or just sit in battle?
Did I miss something?
How can 2khorses activate on spearman? Wouldn't his ability make the horse simply tossed?
-
Did I miss something?
How can 2khorses activate on spearman? Wouldn't his ability make the horse simply tossed?
While blocking alone,
Scenario: I block with Archers of Kedar and band to Foreign Spearman.
-
Christian Soldier is correct.
-
Just to ask for questions sake...
Block with Foreign Spearman with 2k ponies attached.
Pony activates.
Assuming you choose to play a card via the 2k ponies ability... would the card you played via 2k ponies be tossed or would it activate normally?
-
Just to ask for question sake...
Block with Foreign Spearman with 2k ponies attached.
Pony activates.
Assuming you choose to play a card via the 2k ponies ability... would the card you played via 2k ponies be tossed or would it activate normally?
If you block alone with FS with 2kH attached, 2kH gets tossed and doesn't activate at all.
-
It would be helpful if I read cards before asking questions ::)
-
Ok so just for clarity sake, cause there is another thread in here that says weapons still "work" with FS. I don't have time to search it out and quote it tonight but I know I read that in here.
So if you have an enhancement like Goliath's Armor on FS and you block with him solo the armor is tossed? (Wastefully cause it is 0/5 and has no effect when tossed)
So just to be clear, any WC enhancement on FS is tossed if he is blocking solo, unless his ability has been negated prior to him entering battle.
"While blocking alone, toss all enhancements that are played this battle. Cannot be interrupted."
"Played" refers to when the WC enhancement's special ability or numbers activate in battle and not when the WC enhancement was "played" on FS outside of battle in the territory.
-
Ok so just for clarity sake, cause there is another thread in here that says weapons still "work" with FS. I don't have time to search it out and quote it tonight but I know I read that in here.
So if you have an enhancement like Goliath's Armor on FS and you block with him solo the armor is tossed? (Wastefully cause it is 0/5 and has no effect when tossed)
So just to be clear, any WC enhancement on FS is tossed if he is blocking solo, unless his ability has been negated prior to him entering battle.
"While blocking alone, toss all enhancements that are played this battle. Cannot be interrupted."
"Played" refers to when the WC enhancement's special ability or numbers activate in battle and not when the WC enhancement was "played" on FS outside of battle in the territory.
Yes, and yes.
-
I haven't played with FS yet, but what does toss enhancements mean specifically? Does it mean that enhancements cannot be played during the battle? Does toss mean to discard all enhancements at the end of the battle? Do they get discarded or removed from the game? Please clarify. Thanks
-
http://redemption.wikia.com/wiki/Toss
Toss
Last edited on March 28, 2013
by Lambo Diablo SVTT
A toss ability allows a player to discard an enhancement to decrease an opposing character in battle.
How to Play
A toss ability allows a player to play an enhancement in a different way then usual; instead of activating the numbers or special abilities of the enhancement, the enhancement is discarded to decrease an opposing character by X/X (where X is the strength of the discarded enhancement).
Default Conditions
Enhancements disarded to the toss ability must come from hand.
The strength of the discarded enhancement is determined by the face value of the card.
Targets for the decrease must be in battle and controlled by opponent.
-
I guess the only thing that gets me is the "must come from hand" cause a weapon on FS as he enters battle doesn't fit the "must come from hand" if it were played in the territory on a previous turn.
I guess logically all placed weapons came from hand at some point, but that part of the wiki confuses the issue a little. It almost makes it sound like they intended for weapons already on FS to stay on him and remaining him while tossed enhancements come from your hand.
-
I guess the only thing that gets me is the "must come from hand" cause a weapon on FS as he enters battle doesn't fit the "must come from hand" if it were played in the territory on a previous turn.
I guess logically all placed weapons came from hand at some point, but that part of the wiki confuses the issue a little. It almost makes it sound like they intended for weapons already on FS to stay on him and remaining him while tossed enhancements come from your hand.
Nope. Just toss right when he enters battle. Bye bye, cool weapons...
-
"Played" refers to when the WC enhancement's special ability or numbers activate in battle and not when the WC enhancement was "played" on FS outside of battle in the territory.
Just wanted to point out a common misconception here. Weapons are "placed" on WC characters, not "played". Each WC character has a "holds" identifier that allows it to hold one weapon-class enhancement of matching brigade. That is why you can equip weapons while Covenant With Death is active - you are not "playing" them, you are "placing" them.
-
I agree weapons are placed, but the third definition on the wiki basically says anything coming out your hand onto the play surface is "played"
"You play any other card type by putting it face up on the playing surface from hand, deck, or discard pile due to your special ability or game action, except when you discard a card from hand."
Also they need to change the REG/wiki wording of toss. The "must come from hand" phrase has my play group wanting to leave "placed" weapons on FS because they "didn't come from hand" and were not played, but placed outside battle, even outside that turn. I understand their confusion.
The biggest issue here is we tell players "go learn from the REG, Wiki, ect to learn and if the REG says tossed enhancements "must come from hand" it seems to the noobs another player is misleading them by telling them post on the message boards trump whet they think they see on the REG.
Is the "Must come from hand" phrase so characters can't toss from storehouse or an artifact?
-
I agree weapons are placed, but the third definition on the wiki basically says anything coming out your hand onto the play surface is "played"
"You play any other card type by putting it face up on the playing surface from hand, deck, or discard pile due to your special ability or game action, except when you discard a card from hand."
Also they need to change the REG/wiki wording of toss. The "must come from hand" phrase has my play group wanting to leave "placed" weapons on FS because they "didn't come from hand" and were not played, but placed outside battle, even outside that turn. I understand their confusion.
The biggest issue here is we tell players "go learn from the REG, Wiki, ect to learn and if the REG says tossed enhancements "must come from hand" it seems to the noobs another player is misleading them by telling them post on the message boards trump whet they think they see on the REG.
Is the "Must come from hand" phrase so characters can't toss from storehouse or an artifact?
Agreed that the wording in the REG is a bit sloppy. There's an implied 'Or' to the structure that really needs to be made more explicit. The 'any other card type' clause is referencing card types that have not been listed yet. Enhancements have their own definition for played - the first bullet point ("You play an enhancement by attempting to activate its special ability"). Since weapons fall into the enhancement card type, this is the point that governs when they are considered to be played.
-
I agree weapons are placed, but the third definition on the wiki basically says anything coming out your hand onto the play surface is "played"
"You play any other card type by putting it face up on the playing surface from hand, deck, or discard pile due to your special ability or game action, except when you discard a card from hand."
Also they need to change the REG/wiki wording of toss. The "must come from hand" phrase has my play group wanting to leave "placed" weapons on FS because they "didn't come from hand" and were not played, but placed outside battle, even outside that turn. I understand their confusion.
The biggest issue here is we tell players "go learn from the REG, Wiki, ect to learn and if the REG says tossed enhancements "must come from hand" it seems to the noobs another player is misleading them by telling them post on the message boards trump whet they think they see on the REG.
Is the "Must come from hand" phrase so characters can't toss from storehouse or an artifact?
Agreed that the wording in the REG is a bit sloppy. There's an implied 'Or' to the structure that really needs to be made more explicit. The 'any other card type' clause is referencing card types that have not been listed yet. Enhancements have their own definition for played - the first bullet point ("You play an enhancement by attempting to activate its special ability"). Since weapons fall into the enhancement card type, this is the point that governs when they are considered to be played.
I don't know why you are saying the "any other card type" is referencing card types that have not been listed, because referencing card types that have been listed.
A card is considered “played” if it meets these criteria:
You play an enhancement by attempting to activate its special ability (or numbers
in battle)
You play a character or multicolor site by putting it in your territory or your side
of the battle.
You play any other card type by putting it face up on the playing surface from
hand, deck, or discard pile due to your special ability or game action, except
when you discard a card from hand.
The "other card type" is referring to enhancements, characters and multicolored sites that are listed in the first two bullets.
-
I don't know why you are saying the "any other card type" is referencing card types that have not been listed, because referencing card types that have been listed.
A card is considered “played” if it meets these criteria:
You play an enhancement by attempting to activate its special ability (or numbers
in battle)
You play a character or multicolor site by putting it in your territory or your side
of the battle.
You play any other card type by putting it face up on the playing surface from
hand, deck, or discard pile due to your special ability or game action, except
when you discard a card from hand.
The "other card type" is referring to enhancements, characters and multicolored sites that are listed in the first two bullets.
Any other card type = Dominants, Artifacts, Fortresses, Lost Souls. This list is defining what circumstances cause cards to be considered 'played' - an enhancement is played when you attempt to activate its special ability, a character or multi-color site is played when you put it into your territory or your side of a battle, and any other card type is played when you put it face up onto the playing surface due to your special ability or game action.
-
Right so anything that comes out ya' hand face up onto the playing surface is played with the exception of discarded cards. WC enhancements are "played" as they are placed on ECs. That's all gravy.
I guess what I'm looking for is clear final authoritative word from one/two of you beastmode elders or play testers that "must come from hand" excludes weapons placed on FS, which clearly don't come from hand that battle. And that the "must come from hand" also disallows abilities that allow characters to play enhancements from a fortress or artifact. Some of the earlier post on this topic were IMO unclear.
I have been playing since C&D. I love Toss. Good job for creating it. I just hate it when a REG vs Messafeboards discrepancy causes issues among the newer players in my play group.
-
Right so anything that comes out ya' hand face up onto the playing surface is played with the exception of discarded cards. WC enhancements are "played" as they are placed on ECs. That's all gravy.
Mm, no, that's not what _JM_ was saying. Weapons are "placed" when they are put on a character. Weapons are "played" when their abilities/numbers are activated.
-
Right so anything that comes out ya' hand face up onto the playing surface is played with the exception of discarded cards. WC enhancements are "played" as they are placed on ECs. That's all gravy.
Mm, no, that's not what _JM_ was saying. Weapons are "placed" when they are put on a character. Weapons are "played" when their abilities/numbers are activated.
I fully agree. What u was trying to say is that us not my issue.
What you are saying is because the deffinotion of "played" for an enhancement means activated in battle so when WC enhancements activate they are tossed if FS is blocking solo. Disregard the "must come from hand stipulation in the REG
And does the "must come from hand " clause come into effect with a musician using musicians chambers and things like that or not?