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Author Topic: First tournament of teams... questions!  (Read 2545 times)

Offline lightningninja

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First tournament of teams... questions!
« on: September 27, 2009, 01:54:43 AM »
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Okay... what counts as your "opponent?"

I would assume both opponents in teams... however, at nationals they ruled that you can only use unknown nation if you take the block, since they ruled that "opponent" meant "opponent in battle."

However, at Bryon's tournament yesterday Mike Wolfe attacked with Micah. We decided since Micah's ability takes place before the block, you have to count brigades of BOTH opponent's. This seems to make sense, and was the only real thing we could do.

These both make sense... and yet they seem inconsistent. Can the PTB decide on exactly what "opponent" means to create some consistency?

Thanks, and teams is awesome!
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: First tournament of teams... questions!
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2009, 02:01:02 AM »
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The opponent in that case would be the person being attacked by Micah, even if he ultimately does not block because of the special rules for Teams.
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Offline Isildur

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Re: First tournament of teams... questions!
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2009, 02:06:46 AM »
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Quote from: The Guardian on September 27, 2009, 02:01:02 AM
The opponent in that case would be the person being attacked by Micah, even if he ultimately does not block because of the special rules for Teams.
The Land of Bondage is shared in Teams so this point does not work. It should be ruled that you cant "count" the colors until either of the players who is going to block confirms he will block since counting ALL the colors from opponents is uber op'd.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: First tournament of teams... questions!
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2009, 02:10:38 AM »
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Then it would be the player who has the first opportunity to block who would be considered the opponent.
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Offline Isildur

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Re: First tournament of teams... questions!
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2009, 11:22:02 AM »
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Quote from: The Guardian on September 27, 2009, 02:10:38 AM
Then it would be the player who has the first opportunity to block who would be considered the opponent.
But then what your counting may have nothing to do with the player thats actualy might be blocking...

From what the rules very lightly skim over on battle phase stuff I would think that once the hero enters battle and until either player has chosen wether or not to block the battle has not started. This is the most logical thing I can think of that covers all this "pre" block stuff. Example you use provisions and pick a EC and then after you pick it they decide who blocks? That makes no sense! So if you had this rule defined to something like this then you wouldnt have as many wonky encounters with cards such as Micah or Provisions.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2009, 11:28:24 AM by Isildur »
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: First tournament of teams... questions!
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2009, 01:00:39 PM »
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I really don't see what the big deal is. If I use Provisions and choose the blocker, the first opponent can decide to block with that character or he can decide to pass the block with that character.
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Offline SirNobody

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Re: First tournament of teams... questions!
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2009, 03:33:31 PM »
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Hey,

Quote from: Isildur on September 27, 2009, 11:22:02 AM
From what the rules very lightly skim over on battle phase stuff I would think that once the hero enters battle and until either player has chosen wether or not to block the battle has not started.

This is incorrect.  The battle starts when the hero is placed in battle, not when a blocker is presented.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Offline lightningninja

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Re: First tournament of teams... questions!
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2009, 04:41:40 PM »
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Okay, I agree with Guardian, that's how I thought it should be ruled. Thanks.
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: First tournament of teams... questions!
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2009, 02:42:14 AM »
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Quote from: lightningninja on September 27, 2009, 01:54:43 AM
Okay... what counts as your "opponent?"

I would assume both opponents in teams... however, at nationals they ruled that you can only use unknown nation if you take the block, since they ruled that "opponent" meant "opponent in battle."
At Nats 2008, Unknown Nation was allowed to be used by either player of the opposing team during a battle because it says "opponent's", and the rule was to ignore the location of apostrophes in that word.  This is probably something that will have to be worked out at some point this year.

As for the situation with Micah, the word is "opponent", and therefore singular.  I think that attacker would simply choose one of their opponents to figure out "x".  Then the opposing team would choose which of them would block.  There doesn't need to be any connection between the two.
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: First tournament of teams... questions!
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2009, 02:56:01 AM »
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Quote
I think that attacker would simply choose one of their opponents to figure out "x".

I think it would just be simpler to say it is the first player who has the first opportunity to block who is considered the opponent for cases where a "pre-block" opponent must be determined.

That being said, I've never played a Teams game before, so maybe there's something else I'm not considering.
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: First tournament of teams... questions!
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2009, 03:07:36 AM »
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I just see a singular "opponent" as being closest to "one opponent".  And the way we interpret cards that say "an opponent" in a multi-player game (ie. Confusion), is that you get to pick one of your opponents regardless of who is attacking you.  This would be the same thing in the reverse.
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Offline lightningninja

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Re: First tournament of teams... questions!
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2009, 12:23:26 PM »
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Hm... that's weird cause it was ruled against me the other way at nationals about unknown nation during my game. Does anyone official want to make a final word about the subject? Guardian, was your word official?
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: First tournament of teams... questions!
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2009, 06:17:57 PM »
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"Opponent" refers to the player you are blocking or attacking. "An opponent" or "One opponent" refers to any player in the game other than yourself.

Unknown Nation says "opponent's Hero" therefore you must be the one blocking the rescue attempt in order to use your Unknown Nation.

Confusion says "one opponent's" therefore you can select any opponent, as well as choosing different opponents if you play more than one Confusion in that battle.

I don't consider myself official unless I've gotten a direct confirmation from Rob, Bryon, Mike or Schaef, but this is the way I have always understood it and have always seen it ruled this way.
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: First tournament of teams... questions!
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2009, 11:39:14 PM »
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Quote from: The Guardian on September 28, 2009, 06:17:57 PM
"Opponent" refers to the player you are blocking or attacking. "An opponent" or "One opponent" refers to any player in the game other than yourself.
Guardian is entirely correct for all other categories of Redemption.  However, this was one of the few exceptions to the rules that were used specifically for TEAMS.  To increase the opportunities for teamwork in the category, it was decided that opponent's and opponents' meant the same thing, and that "your" meant that either you OR your teammate had to own and control a card.  This was a special rule for TEAMS that was used at Nats 2008, and seemed to work really well.  It also was listed as a rule on the website for Nats 2009.

As for being official, Rob is the only "official" person currently regarding TEAMS.  However, myself and John Michaliszyn have been the people who have run the event at Nats for the last several years.
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