Author Topic: First enhancement, eh? (Read 3913 times)

STAMP · « **on:** December 23, 2008, 05:21:49 PM »

Angel’s Sword
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Silver • Ability: 3 / 2 • Class: Weapon • Special Ability: If blocked by a human Evil Character, Hero may play the first enhancement. • Play As: If blocked by a human Evil Character, holder may play the first enhancement on this character. • Identifiers: OT, Depicts a Weapon • Verse: Numbers 22:23

Doesn't Angel's Sword basically satisfy the playing of the first enhancement?

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #1 on:** December 23, 2008, 05:43:21 PM »

...The obvious answer for this question to me would be yes, but I don't think I acually understand what you're saying.

MichaelHue · « **Reply #2 on:** December 23, 2008, 05:45:01 PM »

Quote from: STAMP on December 23, 2008, 05:21:49 PM

Angel’s Sword
Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Silver • Ability: 3 / 2 • Class: Weapon • Special Ability: If blocked by a human Evil Character, Hero may play the first enhancement. • Play As: If blocked by a human Evil Character, holder may play the first enhancement on this character. • Identifiers: OT, Depicts a Weapon • Verse: Numbers 22:23

Doesn't Angel's Sword basically satisfy the playing of the first enhancement?

If you play it after the block, sure. If you place it on a warrior-class hero outside of battle, no, because it is not the first enhancement played in battle, as it was not played in battle. Is this a serious question?

STAMP · « **Reply #3 on:** December 23, 2008, 06:57:53 PM »

Quote from: MichaelHue on December 23, 2008, 05:45:01 PM

Is this a serious question?

It's sort of one of those, you know, "Who's on First?"-type of questions.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #4 on:** December 23, 2008, 10:54:48 PM »

Quote from: MichaelHue on December 23, 2008, 05:45:01 PM

If you place it on a warrior-class hero outside of battle, no, because it is not the first enhancement played in battle, as it was not played in battle.

This gets back to the questions of "what does played mean". I think there's a whole other thread on this question, and I don't remember it having a resolution.

The obvious intention of Angel's Sword is to allow the owner to play "another" GE after the blocker enters battle. However, Angel's Sword definitely enters battle and activates, and some would consider that being "played". Therefore, depending on how that other discussion ends up, there may need to be a play as for this card.

Gohanick · « **Reply #5 on:** December 23, 2008, 11:07:16 PM »

If the question is still unclear, I believe stamp is asking if you play Angel's Sword in battle, does it count as the "first enhancement" or do you get to play another?

MichaelHue · « **Reply #6 on:** December 23, 2008, 11:45:04 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on December 23, 2008, 10:54:48 PM

Quote from: MichaelHue on December 23, 2008, 05:45:01 PM
If you place it on a warrior-class hero outside of battle, no, because it is not the first enhancement played in battle, as it was not played in battle.
This gets back to the questions of "what does played mean". I think there's a whole other thread on this question, and I don't remember it having a resolution.

The obvious intention of Angel's Sword is to allow the owner to play "another" GE after the blocker enters battle. However, Angel's Sword definitely enters battle and activates, and some would consider that being "played". Therefore, depending on how that other discussion ends up, there may need to be a play as for this card.

When you "play" a hero, it means to put it in territory. Initiating a rescue attempt with a hero already in your territory is not "playing" that hero by my understanding of the term. By the same token, if you already played the enhancement on a warrior-class hero in territory, it is not "played" when it enters battle, it just enters battle.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #7 on:** December 24, 2008, 06:38:41 AM »

That's how I see it; playing it outside of battle and then bringing it in is not the same as playing it in battle.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #8 on:** December 24, 2008, 09:41:57 AM »

according to my adino's spear thread it would be the last enhancement played but I don't think it'd be the FIRST one because of it being previously played.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #9 on:** December 24, 2008, 02:40:00 PM »

So it would be the last enhancement played, but not the first enhancement played in battle.

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #10 on:** December 24, 2008, 04:21:10 PM »

I think it would be easier to define Play First and Play Next as the same ability. It would deal with all the confusion of what play first causes (like 2 play firsts, etc). Just define the play first/next the same and decide that whatever ability takes effect first happens first and continue that way.

Just a thought, I think it would make it easier.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #11 on:** December 24, 2008, 04:47:57 PM »

I agree with ChristianSoldier, and it seems like it would be an easy change to implement.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #12 on:** December 24, 2008, 04:57:58 PM »

There is a big difference between them though.

If I play Angels sword in the middle of battle, I don't get to play another enhancement do I?

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #13 on:** December 24, 2008, 05:17:20 PM »

That's an "if blocked by" ability. Since the block happened when the evil character entered battle it is too late to play the next enhancement

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #14 on:** December 24, 2008, 05:33:22 PM »

Actually, the "if blocked by" could be considered dynamic. For instance, if a battle originates with a human EC, and later the opponent adds a demon to the battle, a subsequent good enhancement that says "If blocked by a demon" would trigger since a demon is blocking at the time the enhancement is played.

Hey, Lambo, what if Angel's Sword could do that. Wouldn't that be more fun?

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #15 on:** December 24, 2008, 05:36:48 PM »

I'd be good with that too

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #16 on:** December 24, 2008, 05:47:18 PM »

I guess the concern would be what would happen with an EC that has a "play next" ability. Since Angel's Sword's "play next" would not trigger until after a blocker is presented, the EC's SA would have to complete first. That would then give the EC the "first" enhancement. Or, would Angel's Sword having entered battle first give its "play next" precedence. Would this same problem occur even if it still said "play first?" If so, then the proposal to equate "play first" with "play next" would not be affected.

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #17 on:** December 24, 2008, 05:55:49 PM »

Isn't the rule whichever play first came into effect first happens first. Play next would be the same. I don't know if it would deal with the problem, but I think it would make the game make more sense. And the Angel's sword takes effect first so it would be played first, I would think.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #18 on:** December 25, 2008, 12:44:12 PM »

"Play first," "play next," and "has initiative" should all be the same.

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Author Topic: First enhancement, eh? (Read 3913 times)

Lamborghini_diablo