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The elder team has agreed to make a change to the game rule that "discard piles may not be viewed apart from a special ability" after Nationals when the next REG update is released. We'd like to propose the following entry be added to the REG glossary. There is not presently any entry defining the discard pile so this is 100% new.

Discard Pile

The discard pile is kept face up in a players Out of Play area. The discard pile contains cards that have been used or otherwise discarded during the course of the game. Cards in the discard pile are viewable by any player at any time.

This change will allow any player to look at any discard pile at any time (while maintaining the time limits for tournament play).

We welcome your feedback and questions about how this might impact the game we all enjoy.

A card that says to search discard pile is still a search.

Healing is an entirely different subject but very likely will not involve any search after the updates to the REG.

What was the reasoning among the elders to make this change?

Absolutely in favor of this change.  Most games that I've played with a discard pile have that pile be a known location to all players.  The exceptions are those with specific mechanics/game play reasons to keep the discard pile hidden.  I don't believe that Redemption has those type of mechanics or game play concerns that necessitate discard being a hidden zone.

Been wanting this for YEARS.

I guess I'm curious why it is defined as this: 'The discard pile is kept face up in a players Out of Play area.'

I think that could cause some confusion between removed from play and discarded.

Removed from play isn't a thing. Removed from the game is. That part is there to clarify that even though they are now face up and visible, they aren't in play.

Quote from: kram1138 on July 08, 2016, 03:04:31 PM

Removed from play isn't a thing. Removed from the game is. That part is there to clarify that even though they are now face up and visible, they aren't in play.

I fully understand, but if they aren't in play, how can you target them with abilities? (Just thinking from a new player perspective).

Same way you target something that's in a hand, deck, or set-aside area.

I'm also in favor of this change.  JM's post sums up my thoughts.

Even though I'm not active in the game anymore... I'm not sure how I feel about this change.

I was a big proponent of being able to look at your discard pile for a number of years and eventually I just gave up trying to fight for it and excepted that it would never change I dig the simplicity the new rule change brings but I do feel it makes Redemption a touch less competitive.

I still don't like the idea of someone being able to just decide they want to look at my discard pile while I'm in the middle of a battle with someone else (in a multi-player game).

Wowowow what? Is that really a thing? For what it's worth, I know I for sure glazed over that part in the fine print and I'm certain I'm not the only person who missed that.

The new rule gives a HUGE boost to both players. While this might be an extreme example, I find that almost equal to having Urim and Thummim or promo John becoming a game rule, instead of an artifact or hero ability.

I can fully support looking at your OWN discard pile. In my opinion it simplifies things which makes the game a bit less competitive but it makes sense at least.

I do not support being able to look at your opponents discard pile. I cannot name another game that allows you to do that and I feel that is simplifying things too far.

I cannot name another game that allows you to do that and I feel that is simplifying things too far.

Pretty much all of them let you

EDIT: I'll clarify with examples:  The three biggest games in the same category as Redemption are Magic, Pokemon, and Yu-Gi Oh.  In all three of these games, the discard pile is "public knowledge," meaning any player can look through any discard pile at any time.  No problems have been caused there at all, so I'm not sure how we'd have any issues either.

The ability to scan through any discard pile at any time is very common among the CCG world. Actually, to my knowledge, Redemption is the only one that restricts it at all. Players will not be able to take "extra" time to do this but will have to find ways to include discard pile scanning into their regular game play. When it is not your turn would be the most advantageous time, but you also don't want to miss triggers you opponent may or may not be setting off. It adds more more information available to the players while giving you another option to weigh as far as what you focus on during the game. You don't want to TILT!

The ability to scan through any discard pile at any time is very common among the CCG world. Actually, to my knowledge, Redemption is the only one that restricts it at all. Players will not be able to take "extra" time to do this but will have to find ways to include discard pile scanning into their regular game play. When it is not your turn would be the most advantageous time, but you also don't want to miss triggers you opponent may or may not be setting off. It adds more more information available to the players while giving you another option to weigh as far as what you focus on during the game. You don't want to TILT!

Someone going through my discard pile while I'm trying to focus on a battle is what would put me on tilt...

Someone going through my discard pile while I'm trying to focus on a battle is what would put me on tilt...

Good to know.