Author Topic: Faithful Witness Q (Read 1423 times)

Master Q · « **on:** June 12, 2017, 07:34:42 PM »

Can I use SoG or Faithful Witness to negate the Jim LS (or other look at hand abilities) before those abilities trigger? My original thought is no, since I'd say the ability has to complete (unless you can erase your opponent's memory) before you can negate it (unless it gives you special initiative or you use an instead ability), but I vaguely recall a discussion about rescuing the Hopper with SoG as the opponent draws it. Since Faithful Witness is not an instead ability (or is it

) this is not immediately obvious to me.

Faithful Witness- "If an opponent's evil or neutral card targets your hand or deck, you may discard this Hero to negate that ability and search discard pile for a good Enhancement."

Since we're on Faithful Witness, can you discard him in response to a CBI ability like Mayhem or Ends o' the Earth just to search for a good Enhancement?

The Guardian · « **Reply #1 on:** June 12, 2017, 07:45:36 PM »

The SoG/Hopper play works because Hopper completes, but before the draw phase ends a player can use SoG to negate Hopper which puts it into the opponent's LoB where it can be rescued. So Hopper does actually complete.

Yes, I believe FW can be used just to search even if it cannot negate the card.

Master Q · « **Reply #2 on:** June 12, 2017, 10:13:04 PM »

So Faithful Witness and SoG effectively cannot be played to negate a look at hand card, right? But I could discard Faithful Witness in that scenario to search discard pile for a GE?

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #3 on:** June 13, 2017, 02:17:31 AM »

Correct.

megamanlan · « **Reply #4 on:** June 13, 2017, 06:23:16 AM »

Quote from: Master Q on June 12, 2017, 10:13:04 PM

So Faithful Witness and SoG effectively cannot be played to negate a look at hand card, right? But I could discard Faithful Witness in that scenario to search discard pile for a GE?

Actually I want to say no, because that implies all "look" abilites are inherently CBI at least, and honestly I see no reason for them to be an inherent CBI besides the occasional time on Lackey when your Opponent looks before realizing that you have a response. (Which is on them) But more importantly, that just in general wouldn't happen in an actual tournament. In a tournament you can say "wait" before they look, negate it and they never look. (But it's one of those things that if you let them look then it's too late, but that would be different for Lackey.)

Josh · « **Reply #5 on:** June 13, 2017, 08:42:42 AM »

Quote from: megamanlan on June 13, 2017, 06:23:16 AM

Actually I want to say no, because that implies all "look" abilites are inherently CBI at least, and honestly I see no reason for them to be an inherent CBI besides the occasional time on Lackey when your Opponent looks before realizing that you have a response. (Which is on them) But more importantly, that just in general wouldn't happen in an actual tournament. In a tournament you can say "wait" before they look, negate it and they never look. (But it's one of those things that if you let them look then it's too late, but that would be different for Lackey.)

But that's not how Negates work. Negates undo abilities that have already completed. Unless a Look ability is actually Prevented ahead of time, it happens. And the very definition of the Look ability makes it inherently CBI.

Same with Shuffle abilities. You can't return a Shuffled deck back to its prior unshuffled form, and you can't unknow the cards you saw with a Look ability. If they aren't Prevented, then they happen CBI.

Gabe · « **Reply #6 on:** June 13, 2017, 08:56:35 AM »

Until we get a "flashy thing" (like from Men in Black) look and reveal abilities are inherently CBI. That doesn't make abilities that are paired with them CBI, but you cannot take away what has been seen. You never get a chance to negate a look/reveal ability before it completes.

Watchman · « **Reply #7 on:** June 13, 2017, 09:13:59 AM »

Quote from: The Guardian on June 12, 2017, 07:45:36 PM

The SoG/Hopper play works because Hopper completes, but before the draw phase ends a player can use SoG to negate Hopper which puts it into the opponent's LoB where it can be rescued. So Hopper does actually complete.

Yes, I believe FW can be used just to search even if it cannot negate the card.

How can (I/J) SoG even be able to target the Hopper when it's in your own LoB?

Gabe · « **Reply #8 on:** June 13, 2017, 09:58:15 AM »

The target of a rescue ability is limited to an opponent's Land of Bondage. The target of a negate ability does not have that limit. If you negate the hopper the same phase as it "hopped" it will return to it's owner where it's a legal target for the rescue.

Jeremystair · « **Reply #9 on:** June 13, 2017, 10:03:10 AM »

So are you saying that I can negate the Dull soul and rescue the crowd lost soul with the son of God?

The Guardian · « **Reply #10 on:** June 13, 2017, 10:04:29 AM »

Quote from: Jeremystair on June 13, 2017, 10:03:10 AM

So are you saying that I can negate the Dull soul and rescue the crowd lost soul with the son of God?

No, Son of God targets the same soul for negate and rescue.

Watchman · « **Reply #11 on:** June 13, 2017, 06:29:15 PM »

I'm not sure I understand how this plays out.

Two scenarios:

1. It's my turn and I draw three cards and one of them is the Hopper. It goes to my opponent's LoB and I draw to replace. I play I/J SoG in the draw phase to rescue it. What happens now that I've negated it?

2. It's my opponent's turn and he draws three, one of them is the Hopper and it goes to my LoB. He draws to replace it. I can't target it with I/J SoG as it is in my own LoB.

Jeremystair · « **Reply #12 on:** June 13, 2017, 07:02:29 PM »

Quote from: Watchman492 on June 13, 2017, 06:29:15 PM

I'm not sure I understand how this plays out.

Two scenarios:

1. It's my turn and I draw three cards and one of them is the Hopper. It goes to my opponent's LoB and I draw to replace. I play I/J SoG in the draw phase to rescue it. What happens now that I've negated it?

2. It's my opponent's turn and he draws three, one of them is the Hopper and it goes to my LoB. He draws to replace it. I can't target it with I/J SoG as it is in my own LoB.

In scenario 1 as the player who drew the hopper lost soul you have the opportunity to wait until the next phase before you play the son of God that way it's not negated. Because the way they are ruling it the Son of God would negate the hopper lost soul in that phase.

In scenario 2 as long as you play your son of God in the same phase as the hopper lost soul jumps to your land of bondage it negates the hopper lost soul putting it back in your opponent's land of bondage so you can Rescue It.

The Guardian · « **Reply #13 on:** June 13, 2017, 07:27:58 PM »

^^Correct.

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Author Topic: Faithful Witness Q (Read 1423 times)

Master Q

Faithful Witness Q

The Guardian

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Master Q

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Minister Polarius

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megamanlan

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Josh

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Gabe

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Watchman

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Gabe

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Jeremystair

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The Guardian

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Watchman

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Jeremystair

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The Guardian

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