Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: BubbleBoy on April 30, 2009, 06:13:40 PM
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If I block a rescue with Seven Wicked Spirits (http://redemptionreg.com/REG/sevenwickedspirits.htm) and exchange for King of Tyrus, (http://redemptionreg.com/REG/kingoftyrus.htm) who is currently in Kingdoms of the World, (http://redemptionreg.com/REG/kingdomsoftheworld.htm) is SWS' ability negated and he goes back into battle as FbtN, or is he protected from KoT's ability by the time it kicks in? Or maybe, does KoT not affect SWS anyway because he only affects things in his battle?
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SWS' ability negated and he goes back into battle as FbtN
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I'm normally a pretty agreeable guy, but I can't pass up a chance to disagree with MJB. ;)
King of Tyrus only negates the cards in battle. SWS is no longer in battle and would not be negated. KoT would stay in battle.
*edit*
Nevermind all that. I don't know what I'm talking about. I just like to disagree with MJB. :D
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but does it not say "Negate all special abilities on Characters and Enhancements (except this special ability)"? Where does it specify ONLY abilities in battle? It doesn't, unless there is some rule dealing with this.
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I'm sticking by my original claim.
There have been similar discussions before about Seven Sons of Sceva getting a KoT out of the discard pile. My recollection is that SSoS ends up in a BTN battle, while KoT ends up in territory.
Of course my recollection may be faulty--but I'm not caving in just because it's Gabe. :P
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That'll teach me to answer a question before I look at the REG. I guess I was confused because TaS is not negated when he brings in a FBTN character, but that's for different reasons. I was under the wrong impression that FBTN only targeted cards in the current battle (not in territory). So that's a big fat -1 for me.
It was worth it though, just to disagree with MJB. Sorry, bud. ;)
FBTN does only target all cards in play so SSoS can bring KoT back from the discard pile (out of play) without being negated. I did my homework on this one. :)
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Hmmm.... that could be a fun way to extend oranges FBTN.
use SWS to keep grabbing KoT out of KotW, but he keeps going back, leaving a 7/7 in fbtn. When they eventually AotL SwS, pull out KoT and use him.
I was under the wrong impression that FBTN only targeted cards in the current battle (not in territory).
That brings up an interesting thought. Can a FBTN character negate a character such as Death and Hades, while they are still in their territory?
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That brings up an interesting thought. Can a FBTN character negate a character such as Death and Hades, while they are still in their territory?
Abilities activated during a previous turn/phase cannot be negated after the phase in which they were activated.
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Okay, so KoT's ability kicks in before KotW's ability has time to re-settle? I thought it was the other way around: What I thought was that SWS would interrupt KotW's ability, switch with KoT, and then KoT and KotW would activate at the same time. Then, although normally KoT would negate SWS and the switch would be undone, SWS now has protection from KotW, which would make him unnegatable. Have I been incorrect?
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Okay, so KoT's ability kicks in before KotW's ability has time to re-settle? I thought it was the other way around: What I thought was that SWS would interrupt KotW's ability, switch with KoT, and then KoT and KotW would activate at the same time. Then, although normally KoT would negate SWS and the switch would be undone, SWS now has protection from KotW, which would make him unnegatable. Have I been incorrect?
Yes. You have been incorrect. Your problem lies in this step, "KoT and KotW would activate at the same time." 7WS interrupted the protection of KotW, and that interrupt stays active until KoT has entered battled, which includes having KoT's SA activate. So KoT's SA activates before KotW's protections returns in force.
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Then why isnt KoT sent back to Kingdoms of the world, instead of having him in territory? Especially if you drag him out of the discard pile? why does he not go back to the discard pile, instead of heading to territory?
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Then why isnt KoT sent back to Kingdoms of the world, instead of having him in territory? Especially if you drag him out of the discard pile? why does he not go back to the discard pile, instead of heading to territory?
First... just to be clear, the KotW and discard pile examples were two separate things dealing with two separate ECs. They are closely related, but its better to no conflate the two.
In the 7WS case, KOT wouldn't go back into KotW because KoT is negating the fortress interrupt that would allow you to place him in KotW. In other words, KotW says when ECs can be placed in it--I'm not sure why you think KoT's SA would change that.
I never understood the SSoS discussion as to why KoT didn't end up back in the discard pile. As I stated above, I may even be remembering it incorrectly.
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As Gabe said above, SSoS is no longer in play (it is in the discard pile), so KoT doesn't target it with the negate.
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As Gabe said above, SSoS is no longer in play (it is in the discard pile), so KoT doesn't target it with the negate.
Yeah, but Gabe was so completely wrong* on the 7WS + KotW + KoT ruling, so I wasn't sure if it was safe to trust him on SSoS.
* :P
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Oh, I never said you could TRUST Gabe. Who, being in right mind, would ever consider it?
That said, he is right from time to time.*
*(more like "time after time")
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In the 7WS case, KOT wouldn't go back into KotW because KoT is negating the fortress interrupt that would allow you to place him in KotW. In other words, KotW says when ECs can be placed in it--I'm not sure why you think KoT's SA would change that.
So KotW reactivates before KoT activates?
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No. KoT's sa activates prior to KotW's sa reactivating.
Activating KoT's btn sa simultaneously negates both the fortress interrupt and exchange portion of 7WS sa. Thus, 7WS is forced back into battle (exchange is negated) and KoT cannot get moved into KotW (fortress interrupt is negated).
If the EC searched for weren't BTN, then you would do all of the EC's sas (including banding, ctb, everything), and only after all of those sa's activated would 7WS's fortress interrupt lapse.
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KoT's sa activates prior to KotW's sa reactivating.
Where is this stated?
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SWS exchanges for KoT.
SWS ability doesn't complete until the exchange is complete and that includes the activation of special abilities on characters entering battle.
KoT enteres battle and negates all (while SWS is still interrupting forts).
Since the exchange is negated SWS returns to battle but it's FBTN because of KoT.
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Okay, that makes sense. So then the exchange would be undone? KoT would go back into KotW regardless of whether he is negating the interruption of the fortress?
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Okay, that makes sense. So then the exchange would be undone? KoT would go back into KotW regardless of whether he is negating the interruption of the fortress?
No, KoT does not go back into KotW.
7WS has a two part SA. One part of the SA negates Fortress special abilities. The other part of the SA exchanges 7WS with another EC.
When KoT enters battle, his SA activates and he negates both parts of 7WS SA's simultaneously. By negating the exchange portion 7WS (KoT) is forced back into (out of) battle. By negating the fortress interrupt KotW goes back to being played as written. As written KotW only allows you add/remove characters following the draw phase, not in the battle phase, so KoT can't get back in.
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So, in conclusion...I'm confused. :-\
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It would be fight by the nymbers but you would have Sos and not KoT.
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It would be fight by the nymbers but you would have Sos and not KoT.
That's sort of what I thought, but...hee hee...nymbers...but what I thought MJB was saying was that SWS couldn't come back out and KoT would just go back to your territory.
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That's sort of what I thought, but...hee hee...nymbers...but what I thought MJB was saying was that SWS couldn't come back out and KoT would just go back to your territory.
That's almost what I said. At the end of the whole shooting match...
SWS is in battle.
The battle is BTN
KoT is sitting in your territory.
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Bu - Well...I guess I'm not going to ask anymore quetions. :P
Thanks for everyone's input.