Cactus Game Design Message Boards

1) If I play an enhancement on a hero and retain the initiative, is it now impossible for my opponent to negate/discard this enhancement? Assuming I choose to resolve battle (I know it sounds foolish, but this is hypothetical) or I play another enhancement on top of that one?

2) If I have 2+ enhancements on a hero when initiative is returned to my opponent and they are able to play 2 consecutive "negate/discard" last enhancement played in battle, will my last 2 be discarded even tho the "last" one had already been discarded?

3) If I have a warrior class enhancement attached to a warrior class hero outside of battle and my opponent plays an evil character followed by "discard" last enhancement played, will that discard my warrior class enhancement? It wasn't played after the battle started, but it WAS played for battle.

Thank you! Admittedly, I have barely searched the forums for my answers before posting, so your search flaming will fall on deaf ears ^^

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond, but I feel the questions still need an answer. In regards to:

1) Assume I choose to resolve battle. This HAS come up in our last game. I played an evil character and enhancement JUST to proc the enhancement, knowing I would lose the battle

2) My fault for being so vague. What happens if their 2 enhancements read "discard last GOOD enhancement played in battle"? Does just the last one go away, or both? I understand this is theoretically impossible as removal of my "last" good enhancement would transfer the initiative back to me, but the question remains.

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond, but I feel the questions still need an answer. In regards to:

1) Assume I choose to resolve battle. This HAS come up in our last game. I played an evil character and enhancement JUST to proc the enhancement, knowing I would lose the battle

If you have initiative and you choose to let the battle resolve, in general your opponent cannot play an enhancement. There is one exception to this, which is if your opponent has a special ability active which grants them the right to play an enhancement--for example from Angel's Sword or Helmet of Brass. Your opponent could also negate your enhancement using an artifact (for example Unsucessful or Covenant with Noah).  Barring those, the battle will go to resolution with your enhancement in tact.

2) My fault for being so vague. What happens if their 2 enhancements read "discard last GOOD enhancement played in battle"? Does just the last one go away, or both? I understand this is theoretically impossible as removal of my "last" good enhancement would transfer the initiative back to me, but the question remains.

There is always only one "last enhancement played in battle."  If you play good enhancement A followed by B before passing initiative to your opponent--the only enhancement he can discard using a "discard last GOOD enhancement played in battle" ability is card B.  Discarding B does not rewind the clock.

Instaposted.

Answer to #3. Yes, the weapon would be discarded in this case.

Answer to #3. Yes, the weapon would be discarded in this case.

Not if the warrior holding the enhancement hasn't entered battle. Weapons aren't played unless they enter battle. That's why you can put good weapons on warriors if your Opponent has Darius Decree active.

Quote from: EmJayBee83 on April 29, 2014, 11:13:41 AM

Answer to #3. Yes, the weapon would be discarded in this case.

Not if the warrior holding the enhancement hasn't entered battle. Weapons aren't played unless they enter battle. That's why you can put good weapons on warriors if your Opponent has Darius Decree active.

The OP has already addressed this point.

For clarification; while the enhancement was "equipped" outside of battle, the question assumes that the hero and their enhancement are put onto the battlefield......

(I am a little confused, however, as to why someone felt the clarification to a non-asked question merited an up vote, but oh well...)

To clarify regarding the double "negate last" question:

I was answering the "discard last" question.

I would respectfully disagree, and have seen it played the way I explained in tournaments (including 2011 nationals) in that negate completely makes it so the card never had any impact on anything. Do you have something from the rules that supports your statement?

To clarify regarding the double "negate last" question: The "last" enhancement to be played of a specific alignment is simply the most recent one to have been played, it's not one specific enhancement. If the Hero plays 2 enhancements (perhaps they band in 2 Heroes with the ability to play an enhancement) and then the blocker has initiative, they could play 2 "negate the last good enhancement/card played" to negate both of the played good enhancements. Negate makes it so the negated thing never happened, so if you negate the second enhancement the first one then becomes the "last good enhancement played" and the second negate can thus target it.

Hopefully that makes sense.

This is not true.  Negate undoes abilities, but enhancements are played, per the definition of play when they are attempted to be activated for ability or numbers in battle.  Because the numbers are still in battle, and the ability was attempted to be played, it was still played. Negation does not undo the playing of the card.

The only ability that has us treat something as if it never happened is instead

Now that's definitely not true.

Negating a draw ability cascade negates any cards played that were drawn by that draw ability (except CBN cards) and returns them to deck (which undoes their playing, because if it didn't that would be crazy weird) so there is precedence for undoing the playing of a card. It may not happen in the way I thought it did but it happens sometimes.

At least that's how I thought it works. Apparently I've been wrong about this sort of thing before, haha.