Cactus Game Design Message Boards

but if you place the enhancement with agur, his SA says the enhancement activates when the character enters battle, which would put in after chose the blocker SA activate

1)  Hero leaves hand or territory
2)  Hero enters Field of Battle
3)  Activate special ability on Hero
4)  Activate gained abilities
5)  Activate weapon-class abilities
6)  Activate banding abilities
7)  Activate choose the blocker abilities
 Activate special abilities triggered by the beginning of battle
9)  Declaration of intent (i.e., battle challenge or rescue attempt)

Agur
Type: Hero Char. • Brigade: Yellow • Ability: 8 / 9 • Class: None • Special Ability: You may place an O.T. Enhancement from hand (or discard pile if Book of the Law is active) on a human Hero of matching brigade in your territory. The next time that Hero enters battle, that Enhancement activates and is discarded immediately.

enh placed by agur activate when the character enters battle as specified by his SA.  SA superseed game rules, so the activate as an 8.  what it comes down to is if "beginning of battle" and "hero enters battle" mean the same thing

No, under the current rule system Placed Ehns do not function like WC enhs, they are placed under specific criteria, and they activate under specific criteria.

Also, I'm going to go mildly off tangent here and propose my system.

I believe we (Redemption) need to move away from using the word "Activate" when describing the order of operations, and move instead to the word "Trigger" I feel this will lessen confusion.
In addition, instead of an Order of Operations per say, I propose an ordered cue system, which would work like follows.

You push a hero into battle, say ET, his ability triggers, because it is the only ability triggering, naturally it gets to go first - He plays Unified Kingdom, now here's where the real benefit of my system comes in.

All these hero's enter battle say like 10 or 15. two of them have placed cards, one has a warrior class enhancement.

All the cards Trigger at the same time (you can look at this like the all wave their hands saying I get to activate)
Then you look and say ok, all the heroes are level 1 abilities (step 3 in the current system)
Then the warrior class enhancement is a level 2 ability
The placed cards are level 3 abilities.

So all the cards are triggered then all the level one abilities complete in the order that holder chooses. say Jacob was in battle, as a banding card he becomes a level 4 ability.

Then you move to the level two cards (The warrior class enhancement) it activates.

Next we come to level 3 abilities - Placed cards, of the two enhancements one is a CTB, one a Battle winner, So the battle winner can go here, however the CTB says oh wait, I'm actually a level 9 ability I'll wait. And so on and so forth.

Do you see how this could simplify matters, where you consider everything in steps where different abilities are considered rather than considering types of cards?

I'd love to take credit for this whole system but only about half of it was mine, Hanno102 helped me through the particulars. (Yes this is similar to what MTG does, but their system seems to work exceptionally well.)

Thanks,

RDT

I think choose the blocker should happen when the blocker would normally be put in battle, therefore getting rid of the choose the blocker issue.

Something like you choose the blocker when the ability activates (or triggers or whatever you want to call it) and then when the evil character would normally come it that is when the character is brought into battle (this only applies to pre-block choose the blockers)

What wrong with the current system is that it raises questions constantly, my system clearly lays out each type of ability rather than each card, which makes it easier to understand. (IMO)

If Redemption had a Warrior Class enhancement that added a character to battle, it would activate in step 5 right? Wrong - It would activate in step 7, or at least it would be ruled that way.

Under my system there would be no question, it would be a level 9 ability and would activate last. (I still haven't ironed out all the scenario's and details with my system)

Whats so hard about it is for newer players, I can't count the number of times when I've had to explain why something doesn't work the way they think it does, its kind of like the classic "But SoG says Any soul why can't it rescue the N.T.?"

Hey,

When a character enters battle, abilities on that character activate, abilities gained by that character activate, abilities on a weapon held by that character activate; abilities on cards placed on that character do not activate.

If I play Melchizedek's Blessing in battle and place it on Joshua the High Priest in my territory, when Joshua next enters battle Melchizedek's blessing does not activate again and get placed on someone else.

An enhancement placed by Agur does not activate when it enters battle.  An enhancement placed by Agur activates when the ability "The next time that hero enters battle, that enhancement activates" is triggered.

Anything that activates at the beginning of battle must be carried out before anything that is triggered by the beginning of battle can be carried out.  (This is actually true in a more general sense.  If an action both activates one or more abilities and triggers one or more abilities the abilities that activate must be addressed first and only after all of those have been addressed can any triggered abilities be addressed.)

This is why Hidden Treasures happens after Provisions, because Hidden Treasures is triggered and Provisions is activated.  In the same way Ehud's choose the blocker ability activates when he enters battle, an enhancement placed on Ehud by Agur is triggered when Ehud enters battle.  So Ehud's choose the blocker happens before the enhancement happens.

If you prefer to look at it as a sequence of events that happens at the beginning of battle, the proper sequence is...

0-  If playing with rescuer's choice, declare which soul you are going for.  If playing a multiplayer game, declare which opponent you are attacking.
1-  Hero leaves hand or territory
2-  Hero enters Field of Battle (the character "enters battle" and the "beginning of battle" both occur at this point)
3-  Activate special ability on Hero
4-  Activate gained abilities
5-  Activate weapon-class abilities
6-  Activate banding abilities
7-  Activate choose the blocker abilities
8-  Activate abilities triggered by 0-7

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly