Author Topic: Draw Abilities (Read 1746 times)

megamanlan · « **on:** April 10, 2012, 12:59:09 AM »

I am having difficulty here, because I have found people that claim that Draw abilities target the Deck. Now here is my confusion, I used to play Yugioh, and in Yugioh, they cleared this up, by saying that Draw abilities do not target. When I started to play Redemption, I seemed to get that the same was true for Redemption as well. But recently others that I have talked to and played with online have mentioned otherwise. So here is my question:

1) Is a Draw ability target anything and if so, what?

2) Can I draw if my Deck is protected? (Ie by Thad)

My understanding is that Draw does not target thus is excempt from Protect Abilities (unless specifically noted to like 'Protect Decks from Draw Abilites' or 'Opponent may not Draw Cards') so could someone please help clear this up for me?

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #1 on:** April 10, 2012, 12:12:37 PM »

1. The deck

2. No

megamanlan · « **Reply #2 on:** April 10, 2012, 12:18:25 PM »

Well, here is my trouble. In my region it was ruled otherwise. I'd like to see if there is a general consensus on it.
(Also, in Yugioh they gave some good arguement on how a Draw does not target anything, but I forgot what it was...)

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #3 on:** April 10, 2012, 02:09:34 PM »

Quote from: megamanlan on April 10, 2012, 12:18:25 PM

Well, here is my trouble. In my region it was ruled otherwise. I'd like to see if there is a general consensus on it.
(Also, in Yugioh they gave some good arguement on how a Draw does not target anything, but I forgot what it was...)

There is a general consensus. Draw abilities target the deck, and the deck can be protected from draw abilities.

megamanlan · « **Reply #4 on:** April 10, 2012, 02:26:16 PM »

I'm saying in general, if a Card 'protects Deck from Evil Cards' my understanding is that Draw is exempted from that, but if the card says 'Protect Deck from Draw Abilities' then that is when Draw is stopped. This is the idea I have, but as I mentioned before I'm coming from Yugioh with says Draw can't target.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #5 on:** April 10, 2012, 05:31:37 PM »

Yeah, that's not the case in Redemption.

megamanlan · « **Reply #6 on:** April 10, 2012, 07:20:05 PM »

I see that, I'm just not following the logic in that, since I've heard most other card games have similar rulings.

Josh · « **Reply #7 on:** April 10, 2012, 08:49:31 PM »

Protecting a deck against Draw abilities won't stop the D3 at the beginning of a turn, since it is done by game rule, not special ability. But any Draw ability is a special ability, which means it can be protected against. If this is inconsistent with other games, then you will need to forget about those other games when you play Redemption.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #8 on:** April 10, 2012, 08:58:59 PM »

Quote from: megamanlan on April 10, 2012, 07:20:05 PM

I see that, I'm just not following the logic in that, since I've heard most other card games have similar rulings.

This isn't "most other card games". In Redemption, some things work differently. It's perfectly logical, it's just different.

megamanlan · « **Reply #9 on:** April 10, 2012, 10:37:41 PM »

My problem is that I'm not following the logic. My understanding is that Draw cannot target because there is no defined target. And protect doesn't allow you to target the card that it's protecting. I think I remember why Draw is not a target, the idea is that it has an undefined target, and undefined targets are not counted as a target in other games. Or they may put it as Draw does not target because Target has a defined card (Character, Spell, specific card, etc.) Draw does not target it just puts cards from your deck to your hand.
So can someone explain the logic to how a Draw Ability targets the Deck?

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #10 on:** April 10, 2012, 10:39:35 PM »

Quote from: megamanlan on April 10, 2012, 10:37:41 PM

My problem is that I'm not following the logic. My understanding is that Draw cannot target because there is no defined target. And protect doesn't allow you to target the card that it's protecting. I think I remember why Draw is not a target, the idea is that it has an undefined target, and undefined targets are not counted as a target in other games. Or they may put it as Draw does not target because Target has a defined card (Character, Spell, specific card, etc.) Draw does not target it just puts cards from your deck to your hand.
So can someone explain the logic to how a Draw Ability targets the Deck?

Because a draw ability directly does something to the deck. It pulls cards out of it, so it makes sense that such an ability would then target the deck. The logic is perfectly understandable, it's just different than what you're used to. Your understanding of a rule isn't at all relevant when it's a rule for an entirely different game.

Redoubter · « **Reply #11 on:** April 10, 2012, 10:40:30 PM »

Quote from: megamanlan on April 10, 2012, 10:37:41 PM

My problem is that I'm not following the logic. My understanding is that Draw cannot target because there is no defined target. And protect doesn't allow you to target the card that it's protecting. I think I remember why Draw is not a target, the idea is that it has an undefined target, and undefined targets are not counted as a target in other games. Or they may put it as Draw does not target because Target has a defined card (Character, Spell, specific card, etc.) Draw does not target it just puts cards from your deck to your hand.
So can someone explain the logic to how a Draw Ability targets the Deck?

You need to stop thinking about other card games. People who play Yu-Gi-Oh don't get hung up on how different it is from MTG, don't get hung up on how different it is from Redemption.

Where does the card come from? Your deck. How do you get the card? An ability points and says "you may pick that up even though you normally can't." That is how it targets. It is actually perfectly logical.

megamanlan · « **Reply #12 on:** April 10, 2012, 11:03:48 PM »

I somewhat understand this. It's not that Im just thinking in Yugioh terms, it's that it was my understanding that it was the same in Redemption, and it was how I played this last session without anyone mentioning anything about it.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #13 on:** April 10, 2012, 11:13:52 PM »

Quote from: megamanlan on April 10, 2012, 11:03:48 PM

I somewhat understand this. It's not that Im just thinking in Yugioh terms, it's that it was my understanding that it was the same in Redemption, and it was how I played this last session without anyone mentioning anything about it.

I regret that it never came up, and left you confused. However, I'm not surprised. There are not many cards that protect the deck, and even fewer that protect it from yourself. So it probably hasn't applied in very many cases.

megamanlan · « **Reply #14 on:** April 10, 2012, 11:45:26 PM »

Well, at least it's good to know now...

Josh · « **Reply #15 on:** April 11, 2012, 09:56:43 AM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on April 10, 2012, 11:13:52 PM

There are not many cards that protect the deck, and even fewer that protect it from yourself. So it probably hasn't applied in very many cases.

To give one of the rare examples, if you attacked with Simon Zealot and kept him in play, and then your opponent attacked you with Hur, you would not shuffle or draw, since both hand and deck are protected.

megamanlan · « **Reply #16 on:** April 11, 2012, 01:24:20 PM »

It'd be cool if u could still Draw,
'Haha! U just gave me a +7 now, FA, SoG, NJ, a Battlewinner and Mayhem! I win!'
(lol) it would make Hur less of a good idea to do.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #17 on:** April 11, 2012, 01:40:53 PM »

Quote from: megamanlan on April 11, 2012, 01:24:20 PM

It'd be cool if u could still Draw,
'Haha! U just gave me a +7 now, FA, SoG, NJ, a Battlewinner and Mayhem! I win!'
(lol) it would make Hur less of a good idea to do.

Nazareth.

megamanlan · « **Reply #18 on:** April 11, 2012, 07:06:21 PM »

I wish I could use it and exempt myself from the second effect.

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Author Topic: Draw Abilities (Read 1746 times)

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy