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So if I have Cov. of Death up and I play Doubt is Doubts SA negated when the card is placed on the table as a character thus stopping it from being discarded? Or is it because it was a dom when the SA went off that part is cbn?

Doubt
Type: Grim Reaper • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Place in any territory. When played, this card becomes an orange brigade 0/12 Evil Character until end of turn. • Play As: Place in any territory. When played, convert this card to an orange brigade 0/12 Evil Character until end of turn. • Identifiers: Generic OT Genderless (not Human, not Demon) • Verse: Deuteronomy 28:66 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Ultra Rare)

Covenant with Death (FF2)

Type: Curse • Brigade: Pale Green/Brown • Ability: 2 / 4 • Class: None • Special Ability: Negate characters. Restrict players from playing Enhancements unless a character is opposed in battle. Cannot be negated. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Isaiah 28:15 • Availability: Faith of our Fathers Extended booster packs (None)

but it is no longer a dominant... it is a charachter. Just like an evil charachter is no longer an EC when converted...

but, if you had a card that discarded an EC, it would discard doubt. If you had a card that discarded an evil dominant, it would not discard doubt (while a 0/12 EC)... right?

Quote from: I am Knot a Blonde! on October 05, 2011, 09:50:20 AM

but it is no longer a dominant... it is a charachter. Just like an evil charachter is no longer an EC when converted...

When it's ability was activated, it was a dominant. It doesn't have an ability as an EC.

It does have an ability I can see it right there on the card.

Quote from: Professoralstad on October 05, 2011, 09:59:22 AM

Quote from: I am Knot a Blonde! on October 05, 2011, 09:50:20 AM

but it is no longer a dominant... it is a charachter. Just like an evil charachter is no longer an EC when converted...

When it's ability was activated, it was a dominant. It doesn't have an ability as an EC.

It does have an ability I can see it right there on the card.

It does. But it doesn't have an ability that activates as a character, which is what I meant. When it's ability activated, it was a dominant, and dominant abilities can never be negated. It would be similar to Michael playing Innumerable with CwD up.

Yes but a character can be negated in a later phase yes? Doubt would no longer be a Dom thus it would still be a character but not discard it's self.

"Until end of turn" is not a negatable ability. It's a condition of an ability that was CBN when played, so it remains CBN.

Quote from: Isildur on October 05, 2011, 11:02:38 AM

Yes but a character can be negated in a later phase yes? Doubt would no longer be a Dom thus it would still be a character but not discard it's self.

"Until end of turn" is not a negatable ability. It's a condition of an ability that was CBN when played, so it remains CBN.

I still don't understand how it's ability is still cbn when it is no longer a Dom and is somehow still cbn which doesn't make any sense in regards to how negating works. I understand that it used to be a Dom but saying it's like saying something used to be cbn so does that still mean it's cbn? No it's not cbn.

The only part of Doubt's ability that is still active when it becomes a character is the "until end of turn" restriction on how long it's treated as a character. Since that restriction was part of a CBN ability, nothing can negate it and Doubt ceases to be a character at the end of that turn.

Says whom? There's nothing on the card or in the rules to suggest its full SA doesn't activate when it enters battle as an EC.

Quote from: browarod on October 05, 2011, 01:08:39 PM

The only part of Doubt's ability that is still active when it becomes a character is the "until end of turn" restriction on how long it's treated as a character. Since that restriction was part of a CBN ability, nothing can negate it and Doubt ceases to be a character at the end of that turn.

Says whom? There's nothing on the card or in the rules to suggest its full SA doesn't activate when it enters battle as an EC.

I was attempting to clarify for Isildur on why Doubt in territory still ceases to be a character at end of turn even with something like Cov w/ Death active. Battle is a completely different ball of wax and my comment was not referring to it in any way.

If I had to guess on why it doesn't activate when entering battle, I would say that perhaps it acts like a placed card, and those don't reactivate in battle.

When the ability activates, it has an "end of turn" ability that cannot be negated (because it is a dominant). No matter what happens after that, whether or not it is an ec, Cov. with death cannot negate the ability because when it activated it was a domiant, "end of turn" ability which means it can't be negated until the end of the turn.

Place in any territory. When played, this card becomes an orange brigade 0/12 Evil Character until end of turn.

The place is independent of the "when played."

That's not what I'm talking about. You said all the other stuff turns off when it becomes a character. I say, why? In fact, I contend that it doesn't, and Doubts horrible wording has done it in even more than we realized when it was discovered putting it in another player's territory won't let him block with it.

Just because an SA is bad or doesn't do what was intended doesn't mean we get to ignore it.