Cactus Game Design Message Boards

He can lay the first 3 on the table all at the same time, that's perfectly legal, assuming he draws HT off Mayhem and you have no souls, if he can get it down before you can its still perfectly legal.

I was under the influence there is no initiative for dominants. I thought the "respond to own action" rule is only applied to decide ties. If you could lay yours down before him, I believe yours works.

That's not quite true - If you manage to play yours noticeably before he does after the Mayhem then it stands, its when its disputed that the privilege goes to the last player to perform an action.

Take this example - I have Mayhem in my hand, and I haven't played Guardian yet - I drop Mayhem - I get Guardian, you get Falling Away. If you play Falling Away before I proccess that I have Guardian, I'm out of luck.

But sometimes it has nothing to do with processing. If I have Son of God and NJ in my hand and my opponent plays Mayhem I have no problem with that. But if my opponent plays SoG NJ (and I notice that he doesn't have many cards in his hand I can assume he is going to play Mayhem) so then I will play my SoG NJ. But if he is smart he will play them all at once. I don't think this is right because don't you have to let that the first dominant ability activate and complete before anybody can play another car? I have never heard of dominants being able to activate simutaneously, except SoG NJ.

im more concerned about responding multiple dominant/optional use art abilities after each other:

consider: player A draws, plays dominant A in response to his draw. player B also wants to play dominant B in response to players A draw, but must wait until dominant A completes. however, player A also wants to play dominant C. where does this fit in?

does player A get priority and can also respond to his draw with both dominant A and C?
does player A get priority and can respond to his action of playing dominant A and play dominant C after it?
or can player A only respond with 1 dominant after his own action, and must give player B the oppurtunity to play a dominant after the draw?

Playing SoG/NJ at the same time is obviously legal.  If he played SOG/NJ Mayhem and HT all at the same time then that is illegal because mayhem would have shuffled HT.  If he played Sog/NJ/HT and mayhem at the same time then that is a better order but I agree with YMT that you have to collect the LS's from Sog/NJ before playing anything else.

Also when playing mayhem, you have to complete mayhems abilites before playing any dominants.  If I draw FA three cards in to my draw and then play it, my opponent can make me pick it up and wait until I draw out (and everyone else draws out) their cards.  but after everyone has drawn, then other cards can be played

Anyways how long do I have to give him to bury it before I can play sog.

You dont have to give him any time at all!! People, this is not a question of initiative, this is a question of who wins ties.  If your opponent pauses for even an instant, then you should play your card.  Responging to own action ONLY happens in the case of tie.



IN answer to some of hte other questions...

Dominants can interrupt initiative (providing there is not an enhancement special ability that is still being resolved)  Otherwise if I blocked with a low #'s EC you would not be able to play AotL at all until I had "passed" initiative back to you.

Playing Aotl on the only surviving guy in battle is acceptable, but the other character still has initiative to interrupt and play something else until they pass initiative and are then d/c'ed, captured, removed or converted.


AS far as opponents wanting to play multiple dominants at a time.  Whoever plays first wins.  stop thinking about it with regards to initiative.  If player A plays a dom then after it is resolved player B or player A or player Q (provided he is in the game) can play a dom.

what if im drawing, i draw 2 LS's, i want to play falling away and my opponent wants to play SoG/NJ on my LS's while im drawing to win the game, do i get to play falling away first or is there no inish

This was the issue that came up when I was debating whether you are supposed to draw one card at a time, or whether you can draw both cards together before even looking at them. I believe it was Bryon who said you could do the latter, then lay FA down before the LSs.

what if im drawing, i draw 2 LS's, i want to play falling away and my opponent wants to play SoG/NJ on my LS's while im drawing to win the game, do i get to play falling away first or is there no inish

What is stoping you from playing FA before you draw (assuming this is the draw phase that you are talking about and not the SA of a card resolving)?  Seriously.  This "initiative to play dominants" madness has created a redemption sub-culture where indecisive play is thought to be rewarded.

pull the trigger and make a decision.  Play FA before you draw out any other LS's

you cannot play any abilities, even dominants, during the draw phase.

Who says it has to be during the draw phase?  Why can't you decide to play dominants during your opponents D/C Phase?  or battle phase or any other type of phase?  All who play the game understand the pace and play of the game.  If you suspect that your opponent has SoG/NJ but doenst have a guardian out, why are you bothering to wait until after you draw LS's to play FA?  honestly you SHOULD lose the game if you are that indecisive.

additionally, if something tells you to draw, you must complete the drawing action (including laying out lost souls and drawing back up) and then players may play dominants after all the drawing is done. an opponent cannot play sog nj if you lay down 2 lost souls in the middle of drawing. he must wait until all of the drawing is completely done. if sog/nj is then trying to be played, you may play falling away and claim it was in response to your own drawing.

I agreed with you ( and my previous posts show this to be true)  up until this point.

if sog/nj is then trying to be played, you may play falling away and claim it was in response to your own drawing.
 

First of all if SoG/NJ are played during the middle of an SA then they are picked back up and placed in hand.  they are not left on the table "pending resolution"
Second, if Sog/NJ are played immediately after you complete drawing, then you cannot play FA claiming that you were responding to your own action...unless there was a tie. 

Doms activate in the order they hit the Table.

Who says it has to be during the draw phase? 

What is stoping you from playing FA before you draw (assuming this is the draw phase that you are talking about and not the SA of a card resolving)?

apparantly, you did.

Why can't you decide to play dominants during your opponents D/C Phase?  or battle phase or any other type of phase? 

no one is disputing this.

All who play the game understand the pace and play of the game. 

apparantly not, if threads like this are being made.

If you suspect that your opponent has SoG/NJ but doenst have a guardian out, why are you bothering to wait until after you draw LS's to play FA?  honestly you SHOULD lose the game if you are that indecisive.

there are many reasons to bank a falling away. these reasons do not have to be explained to you.

First of all if SoG/NJ are played during the middle of an SA then they are picked back up and placed in hand.  they are not left on the table "pending resolution"

an opponent cannot play sog nj if you lay down 2 lost souls in the middle of drawing. he must wait until all of the drawing is completely done.

i believe i already said that.

Second, if Sog/NJ are played immediately after you complete drawing, then you cannot play FA claiming that you were responding to your own action...unless there was a tie. 

Doms activate in the order they hit the Table.

a 'tie' is a very arbitrary term. if sog/nj is played after i draw, and i choose to play falling away during that time frame, then yes, i can claim i was responding to my own draw and falling away will take precedence over sog/nj.

Quote from: sepjazzwarrior on June 28, 2010, 12:38:50 AM

i drew FA in the draw phase i also drew the LS's in question, so i didnt have a chance to play it until i had completed drawing.  opponent played SoG/NJ while i was drawing, i reminded that i had to finishing drawing before he could play anything, he picks them back up.  now what happens? who gets to play first?

you get precedence over your opponent.

No you dont. 

Whoever plays first gets to play first.  Is is as simple as that.  THe fact that your opponent mis-played their Sog/NJ gives you information that you can now use to "speed up" your decision making process but ultimately, unless you tie, there is no way you get "initiative" to play a dominant.  If you tie, the "responding to own action clause can be used, but if, after you draw, you are clearly beaten by your opponents Sog/NJ then you are beaten, plain and simple.

a 'tie' is a very arbitrary term. if sog/nj is played after i draw, and i choose to play falling away during that time frame, then yes, i can claim i was responding to my own draw and falling away will take precedence over sog/nj.

Wow, someone is really taking liberties with the word "tie."  I would put forward that nowhere in the world would it be considered a tie if I lay my card down a full 5, 10 or 30 seconds after my opponent.  even a one second differential is not a tie.

What you are trying to suggest as the definition of a tie is basically an interpretation of Dominant initiative.  A belief that certain people, under certain circumstances are able to play dominants that take presidence over others due to the situation.

That is not written in the rules anywhere and the responding to own action clause only deals with the situation where a tie (read: simultaneous playing of cards) happens.

Oh and Master K.  I am not even going to bother responding to your "response" to me.  We already have one Schaef and I dont want to promote another one on this board.  besides most of your comments only deal with a mis-interpretation of what I said and are pretty much irrelevant, especally liked your "non-answer." 

I would not allow a player to play SoG, NJ, and Mayhem "simultaneously." If you play SoG and NJ, you will have to move the LSs to your Land of Redemption before you could play Mayhem. That would give time for the opponent to react.

I agree that you can't play them simultaneously.  But if Bob says that while he was moving his 2 LSs to his LoR and discarding his SoG/NJ cards, that his opponent Tom played another dominant before Bob could get his fingers back to his hand to play Mayhem like he had planned, then I would rule in favor of Bob.  Tom could have played his SoG/NJ previously, and didn't.  Therefore, Tom was only now choosing to play them in response to Bob's playing them first.  But Bob gets to respond to his own action first, therefore, the Mayhem would get priority.

consider: [Bob] draws, plays [SoG] in response to his draw. [Tom] also wants to play [Mayhem] in response to [Bob's] draw, but must wait until [SoG] completes. however, [Bob] also wants to play [HT]. where does this fit in?

Tom could play Mayhem before Bob draws.  If Tom waits (to shuffle away the 3 extra cards), then I think the risk Tom takes is that Bob might choose to play a dominant immediately following the draw.  Since Bob would be responding to his own action, Bob would get priority in the case of a tie.  Similarly, Bob would again be responding to his own action by playing HT, so he would also get priority in the case of a tie.

I make an RA with a hero. opponent blocks with a set of banded ECs. i play a battle winning (can be nagated) killing one EC AND AotL simultaneously to kill the second before he can nagate the battle winner?

This situation has already been ruled on.  In this case, your opponent would have initiative to negate the battle winner with the character who was killed by the enhancement.