Author Topic: Does this work? (Read 5202 times)

Gabe · « **Reply #25 on:** June 23, 2010, 01:45:49 AM »

In almost all cases it has to do with mental quickness, not physical quickness. Considering this is a strategy game that seems rather fitting.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #26 on:** June 23, 2010, 01:58:16 AM »

I disagree entirely. I've seen many, many, many, many instances where two people want to play dominants and the "winner" is whoever is able to reach the dominant in his hand faster. There is also the problem that Judges have to make completely subjective calls that may impact the winner of entire tournaments. If there are no rules for playing Dominants, how can anyone be expected to enforce the...rules?

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #27 on:** June 23, 2010, 11:08:10 AM »

I agree with both Gabe's and Polarius's perspectives. The above example crustpope gave:

Quote

The Gow/AotL play is precisely what I fear. Someone presents a charachter has Grapes in their hand (but may actually be deciding to play some enhancements w/initiative) and I play AotL then they say..."but I was gonna grapes him!" When in reality if I had given them the time they may not have.

is exactly what I dont want to see in a high level tournament. Ive played in ROOT games where someone gave me time to play my doms without me knowing they were giving me time and then they play something and i tell them i was going to play my dom and they said they gave me enough time and i told them i was waiting on them to ask for initiative and they said they didnt have to b/c they gave me enough time and it was all over from there...mercy

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #28 on:** June 23, 2010, 11:14:13 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on June 23, 2010, 01:43:49 AM

Nothing in a card game should ever have to do with being more physically quick than your opponent.

Very well said!

Quote from: BrianGabe on June 23, 2010, 01:45:49 AM

In almost all cases it has to do with mental quickness, not physical quickness. Considering this is a strategy game that seems rather fitting.

A look into the mind of one of the greatest Redemption players there are.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #29 on:** June 23, 2010, 11:17:35 AM »

"Someone presents a charachter has Grapes in their hand (but may actually be deciding to play some enhancements w/initiative) and I play AotL then they say..."but I was gonna grapes him!" When in reality if I had given them the time they may not have. But now, all of a sudden they are crystal clear as to what they wanted to do. "

What you describe above is a dishonest player, so I hope that does not come up very often in this game. I personally don't want it to reach a point where I feel I have to put my Grapes out simultaneously with my EC (which I don't think is allowed anyway). You see, because I can't play two cards at once, and my opponent already has his hero on the table, he can have his hand on a facedown card (AOTL) ready to pounce, whereas I can't play two cards at once. It's just frustrating, and creating Grapes of Wrath is what caused this. Didn't anyone foresee this happening, where this GOOD Dominant would be used so much to STOP a rescue attempt by the winning player?

Am I allowed to play my EC and announce as I do so "I'm blocking with ____ but I'm also going to play Grapes of Wrath on him" to avoid the "slapjack" scenario?

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #30 on:** June 23, 2010, 11:20:02 AM »

Actually the GoW/AotL thing online is a very good example of why this is needed.

If you are planning on blocking on RTS, you have to physically drag your EC into battle from territory, and then move your mouse up to your hand to click on GoW. You opponent only has to wait until seeing your EC in the middle of the screen and then click on AotL while you are moving your mouse toward your hand. It is physically impossible to beat the AotL in this case, and that is why I would always rule in favor of the defender getting to play Grapes before the attacker could play AotL.

Of course in a face-to-face game this isn't so much an issue. There you can move your EC into battle with one hand and play GoW immediately with the other hand.

Quote from: stefferweffer on June 23, 2010, 11:17:35 AM

Am I allowed to play my EC and announce as I do so "I'm blocking with ____ but I'm also going to play Grapes of Wrath on him" to avoid the "slapjack" scenario?

I'm also fine with announcing moves like this.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #31 on:** June 23, 2010, 11:27:42 AM »

On a sad note, anyone care to predict how many times a ruling will have to be made on AOTL versus Grapes at Nationals? I hope the judges are all in agreement one way or the other beforehand.

Gabe · « **Reply #32 on:** June 23, 2010, 12:03:24 PM »

Quote from: stefferweffer on June 23, 2010, 11:27:42 AM

On a sad note, anyone care to predict how many times a ruling will have to be made on AOTL versus Grapes at Nationals? I hope the judges are all in agreement one way or the other beforehand.

It shouldn't ever be a problem but I suppose it could happen if there are indecisive players who's hesitate.

If your intention is to block with your EC and immediately play Grapes, I can't see any reason that you shouldn't place your EC into battle with Grapes on top of him (assuming there are not abilities that need to complete first). This shows your intention and doesn't allow any window for AotL. I also use this same type of play to give a player half of the "Lost Souls" and play Burial. It's easy to do and avoids any chance for slap jack.

I also don't seem to have a problem with this over RTS, but I tend to know what I'm going to do and not hesitate. We're only talking about one second from the time you drag your EC into battle and move the mouse to your hand to click on the card.

crustpope · « **Reply #33 on:** June 23, 2010, 12:22:16 PM »

Quote from: stefferweffer on June 23, 2010, 11:17:35 AM

"Someone presents a charachter has Grapes in their hand (but may actually be deciding to play some enhancements w/initiative) and I play AotL then they say..."but I was gonna grapes him!" When in reality if I had given them the time they may not have. But now, all of a sudden they are crystal clear as to what they wanted to do. "

What you describe above is a dishonest player, so I hope that does not come up very often in this game.

You would be surprised how frequently this comes up. I wouldnt call them dishonest so much as I would call them "indecisive"

Aand Mark, I think there is a different set of code of ethics when playing online than playing face to face. There are things that are impossible to do online that are possible to do face to face (such as play cards nearly simultaneously)

In real life, if my opponent hesitates, I wont. I know what is in my hand and I know that possibly my only shot will be to play a certain card. SInce dominants do not require initiative, the only question you will hear me ask is (if it is a banding ec) "are you banding?" because that makes a difference and I want them to ensure that they are not bringing someone else into the battle before I play AotL.

Josh · « **Reply #34 on:** June 23, 2010, 12:33:06 PM »

Quote from: crustpope on June 23, 2010, 12:22:16 PM

You would be surprised how frequently this comes up. I wouldnt call them dishonest so much as I would call them "indecisive"

Aand Mark, I think there is a different set of code of ethics when playing online than playing face to face. There are things that are impossible to do online that are possible to do face to face (such as play cards nearly simultaneously)

In real life, if my opponent hesitates, I wont. I know what is in my hand and I know that possibly my only shot will be to play a certain card. SInce dominants do not require initiative, the only question you will hear me ask is (if it is a banding ec) "are you banding?" because that makes a difference and I want them to ensure that they are not bringing someone else into the battle before I play AotL.

I think stefferweffer's thought was this - there are two ways to think about this scenario, and both result in the person being "dishonest".

1. The person with Grapes was trying to decide whether to play an EE or play Grapes and hadn't decided when the attacker played AotL. If a person is still deciding between their options when AotL is played, and he/she says "I was going to play Grapes", then they are dishonest because they are claiming to have made up their mind when they hadn't (and after the opponent showed him his move, thus making it obvious which decision would have been better).

2. The person with Grapes actually planned to play an EE first and then play Grapes when AotL was played. If this person claims "I was gonna play Grapes!", they are clearly dishonest.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #35 on:** June 23, 2010, 02:47:40 PM »

I usually wait to play my grapes as a block on my EC just so i can say-

"You cant play that AotL"
"Why not"
"Because i get to respond to my own action first"
"But I gave you enough time"
"Not enough, i guess"

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #36 on:** June 23, 2010, 05:22:32 PM »

I think the moral of this story is that players need to learn to be decisive. If your going to use Grapes, fine, but don't even give your opponent a chance to use Angel of the Lord.

crustpope · « **Reply #37 on:** June 24, 2010, 11:13:55 AM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on June 23, 2010, 05:22:32 PM

I think the moral of this story is that players need to learn to be decisive. If your going to use Grapes, fine, but don't even give your opponent a chance to use Angel of the Lord.

Bingo. this is my feeling precicely. read your cards, decide what you want to do and then execute it.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #38 on:** June 24, 2010, 11:15:12 AM »

Yep, there's a reason why you don't have to present a blocker immediately upon a hero entering battle.

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Author Topic: Does this work? (Read 5202 times)

Gabe

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Minister Polarius

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RTSmaniac

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RTSmaniac

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stefferweffer

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Prof Underwood

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stefferweffer

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Gabe

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crustpope

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Josh

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RTSmaniac

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Alex_Olijar

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crustpope

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Alex_Olijar

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