Author Topic: Do characters return to face value when Shuffled? (Read 1981 times)

Red Wing · « **on:** September 23, 2011, 03:27:02 PM »

Opponent makes a Rescue Attempt and I block with King Nabab. Nabab gets converted to a hero. Next turn I RA with converted Nabab and opponent Blocks and I play Grapes of Wrath to shuffle Nabab. Next turn I draw him. Is he a hero or an Evil Character?

King Nadab (Ki)

Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Brown • Ability: 3 / 5 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: If King Jeroboam I is in your discard pile, search discard pile for one evil enhancement with an O.T. reference and put in hand. • Play As: If King Jeroboam I is in your discard pile, search discard pile for one evil enhancement with an O.T. reference and place in hand. • Identifiers: OT Male Human, King (Israel), Royalty, Fought Earthly Battle • Verse: I Kings 15:25 • Availability: Kings booster packs (Uncommon)

Grapes of Wrath (TP)

Type: Lamb • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Discard an evil card in battle to shuffle all remaining characters in battle into owners’ decks. If the current rescuer doesn't have the most Redeemed Souls, he may begin a new battle. • Errata: Discard an evil card in battle to shuffle [return] all remaining characters in battle into owners’ decks. If no Heroes remain in battle and the current rescuer doesn't have the most Redeemed Souls, he may begin a new battle. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Revelation 19:15 • Availability: Thesaurus ex Preteritus booster packs ()

Professoralstad · « **Reply #1 on:** September 23, 2011, 03:30:35 PM »

Any card that returns to deck, hand, or discard pile is returned to face value when they enter play again. The one "exception" is cards like King Amaziah, Jephthah, or Holy Grail that have a once or twice per game ability. If they are shuffled and then returned to play, they are still considered to have used their abilities from before they were shuffled.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #2 on:** September 23, 2011, 04:54:55 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on September 23, 2011, 03:30:35 PM

Any card that returns to deck, hand, or discard pile is returned to face value when they enter play again. The one "exception" is cards like King Amaziah, Jephthah, or Holy Grail that have a once or twice per game ability. If they are shuffled and then returned to play, they are still considered to have used their abilities from before they were shuffled.

One other exception is that if a card has been set aside, it keeps "has been set aside" status.

theselfevident · « **Reply #3 on:** September 23, 2011, 04:58:13 PM »

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on September 23, 2011, 04:54:55 PM

Quote from: Professoralstad on September 23, 2011, 03:30:35 PM
Any card that returns to deck, hand, or discard pile is returned to face value when they enter play again. The one "exception" is cards like King Amaziah, Jephthah, or Holy Grail that have a once or twice per game ability. If they are shuffled and then returned to play, they are still considered to have used their abilities from before they were shuffled.

One other exception is that if a card has been set aside, it keeps "has been set aside" status.

Does it keep its set-aside value.... ex. Prayer and Fasting?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #4 on:** September 23, 2011, 05:02:21 PM »

Nope. It is as if the card was drawn again for the first time. Paul (or any other converted Evil Character) returns to being Saul (or the converted EC at face value) increase/decrease abilities are reset, and gained abilities (like Gathering of Angels) are lost.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #5 on:** September 24, 2011, 12:32:43 AM »

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on September 23, 2011, 04:54:55 PM

One other exception is that if a card has been set aside, it keeps "has been set aside" status.

I hadn't heard this. Do you have a quote from the REG or a link to a thread with that ruling?

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #6 on:** September 24, 2011, 01:03:57 AM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on September 24, 2011, 12:32:43 AM

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on September 23, 2011, 04:54:55 PM
One other exception is that if a card has been set aside, it keeps "has been set aside" status.
I hadn't heard this. Do you have a quote from the REG or a link to a thread with that ruling?

It was during Irish_Luck and I's game with Eric the Wolfe and his dad in Teams. I can't recall if we got a ruling or not, but they were both adamant that "has been set-aside" remains on the card for the remainder of the game, so I went with it, though I thought it was pretty stupid. If this isn't true, I demand a recount of that tournament.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #7 on:** September 24, 2011, 02:32:39 AM »

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on September 24, 2011, 01:03:57 AM

It was during Irish_Luck and I's game with Eric the Wolfe and his dad in Teams. I can't recall if we got a ruling or not, but they were both adamant that "has been set-aside" remains on the card for the remainder of the game, so I went with it, though I thought it was pretty stupid. If this isn't true, I demand a recount of that tournament.

I would prefer a more solid foundation for this ruling before having this exception to a relatively simple rule. Anyone else have any knowledge of this?

Irish_Luck · « **Reply #8 on:** September 24, 2011, 09:21:56 AM »

I had read that ruling somewhere but I am unsure where.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #9 on:** September 24, 2011, 09:50:11 AM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on September 24, 2011, 02:32:39 AM

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on September 24, 2011, 01:03:57 AM
It was during Irish_Luck and I's game with Eric the Wolfe and his dad in Teams. I can't recall if we got a ruling or not, but they were both adamant that "has been set-aside" remains on the card for the remainder of the game, so I went with it, though I thought it was pretty stupid. If this isn't true, I demand a recount of that tournament.
I would prefer a more solid foundation for this ruling before having this exception to a relatively simple rule. Anyone else have any knowledge of this?

Yeah, I'm certainly not saying it's set in stone. That's just why I was under the impression that that was another exception.

Red · « **Reply #10 on:** September 24, 2011, 09:58:06 AM »

It's not. The rules say it's returned to face value. a card cannot be returned to face value and have has been set aside status. It's like it's another copy of the card.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #11 on:** September 24, 2011, 11:50:37 AM »

Quote from: Red on September 24, 2011, 09:58:06 AM

It's not. The rules say it's returned to face value. a card cannot be returned to face value and have has been set aside status. It's like it's another copy of the card.

That argument could be applied to the use of "once/twice per game" abilities as well, but it doesn't apply, which makes your argument as a blanket answer irrelevant. I understand that the reason for "once/twice per game" abilities is to keep the game balanced, and as I mentioned, it didn't make sense at the time to me, but we were under a strict time deadline, so I let it go (though it did cost us that game).

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #12 on:** September 24, 2011, 01:13:31 PM »

The "per game" abilities persist through shuffle because they are, well, "per game." No other ability has this distinction, including "has been set aside."

Professoralstad · « **Reply #13 on:** September 25, 2011, 09:03:31 PM »

Red and Pol are correct.

Gabe · « **Reply #14 on:** September 26, 2011, 02:06:59 PM »

Red, Pol and Professoralstad are correct.

Irish_Luck · « **Reply #15 on:** September 26, 2011, 06:04:08 PM »

Red, Pol, Professoralstad, and Gabe are correct.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #16 on:** September 26, 2011, 06:16:24 PM »

So how should we go about getting everyone who played Teams at Natz together to redo the tournament then?

=)

The Warrior · « **Reply #17 on:** September 26, 2011, 06:27:49 PM »

Red, Pol, Professoralstad,Gabe and Irish_Luck are correct.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #18 on:** September 26, 2011, 11:23:39 PM »

Seeing as the question at hand has been more than sufficiently answered, Imma go ahead and lock it.

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Author Topic: Do characters return to face value when Shuffled? (Read 1981 times)

Chronic Apathy

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