Author Topic: Heretics? (Read 2853 times)

Deist · « **on:** August 13, 2010, 02:38:30 PM »

Do we have a list of heretics?

Master KChief · « **Reply #1 on:** August 13, 2010, 02:52:59 PM »

ananias.

stefferweffer · « **Reply #2 on:** August 13, 2010, 03:00:38 PM »

Do we have a definition of Heretics, in terms of Redemption gameplay? I assume we are talking about those who WERE in God's grace but have since fallen?

Crashfach2002 · « **Reply #3 on:** August 13, 2010, 03:05:17 PM »

There are two or three new cards that have heretic as an identifier. I'm guessing Deist is wondering what older cards are now going to qualify. So yeah, we'll have that as a new term. I'm guessing that Ananias & Sapphira would both qualify.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #4 on:** August 13, 2010, 03:56:29 PM »

I have brought this issue up with the other elders. We will let you know when a resolution has been made on the issue. I would expect to wait at least awhile after Nats, since Rob has that going on now and will have a lot of Disciples distribution issues in the following weeks.

For now, the only heretics I would count on are the ones listed in Disciples (False Teacher, Philetus, and Creeping Deceiver) though I fully expect several more to be added. I personally hope Ananias and Sapphira will be included, but like I said, the definition and everyone it includes is up to Rob.

I did bring it up right away hoping to avoid the long wait we had for a complete list of Magicians.

Deist · « **Reply #5 on:** August 13, 2010, 04:14:36 PM »

I figured the sooner we get anti TGT decks to full power the better. I like Wolf in sheeps clothing

frisian9 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 13, 2010, 11:46:50 PM »

The three heretics are marked in the new set (Philetus, False Teacher, and Creeping Deceiver). Research did not reveal any others yet. The definition in the REG. I seriously doubt Ananias and Sapphira will be included. They were caught in a sin, but not heretics.

Heretic

A heretic is a N.T. human evil character who publicly denied or misrepresented some teachings of the apostles and established doctrines of the Church, while still holding some teachings or doctrines to be true. Their object is to disturb the life of the church and those within it, shaking their confidence and spoiling the work of Christ. The gospels were written in great measure as a means to answer the words and teachings of the heretics in the early N.T. church.

Mike

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #7 on:** August 14, 2010, 12:17:44 AM »

How much research has been undertaken if it didn't turn up Simon Magus, the leader of Gnosticism?

The Warrior · « **Reply #8 on:** August 14, 2010, 12:59:51 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on August 14, 2010, 12:17:44 AM

How much research has been undertaken if it didn't turn up Simon Magus, the leader of Gnosticism?

dang... if Colin were still here

Deist · « **Reply #9 on:** August 14, 2010, 01:59:51 PM »

The False Prophet seems like a viable Heretic.

Deist · « **Reply #10 on:** August 14, 2010, 02:05:25 PM »

I think Simon the Magus was more of a leader of one sect of Gnosticism not so much Gnosticism on the whole.

But I agree with Pol that Simon=heretic by Reg definition and Early Church Definition.

frisian9 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 14, 2010, 09:25:21 PM »

The False Prophet would indeed classify as a heretic. I don't know much about Simon the Magician, but will look into it. I am guessing the "Simon Magus" you mention is one in the same guy, right?

Mike

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #12 on:** August 14, 2010, 09:33:45 PM »

I do believe that is the correct assumption, per a quick wiki check.

frisian9 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 14, 2010, 09:37:47 PM »

Simon the Magician is a heretic by the REG definition. I did not know that he was actually Simon Magus. What a scary guy he was. Thanks for helping me make the tie.

Heretic
A heretic is a N.T. human evil character who publicly denied or misrepresented some teachings of the apostles and established doctrines of the Church, while still holding some teachings or doctrines to be true. Their object is to disturb the life of the church and those within it, shaking their confidence and spoiling the work of Christ. The gospels were written in great measure as a means to answer the words and teachings of the heretics in the early N.T. church.
Several Redemption® cards specifically reference characters that are heretics. The following Redemption® cards refer to heretics:
• Creeping Deceiver (Di) and Wolves in Sheep's Clothing (Di)
The following Redemption® characters are considered heretics:
• Creeping Deceiver (Di), False Teacher (Di), Philetus (Di), Simon the Magician (Ap), and The False Prophet (Pr)

Smokey · « **Reply #14 on:** August 14, 2010, 09:39:24 PM »

Imo, Heretic definition is too general. Colin Michael, Arch Angel, and Peter (the 10/10) are Heretics.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #15 on:** August 14, 2010, 09:40:38 PM »

Quote from: Smokey on August 14, 2010, 09:39:24 PM

Imo, Heretic definition is too general. Colin Michael, Arch Angel, and Peter (the 10/10) are Heretics.

Um, what?

Smokey · « **Reply #16 on:** August 14, 2010, 09:44:15 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on August 14, 2010, 09:40:38 PM

Quote from: Smokey on August 14, 2010, 09:39:24 PM
Imo, Heretic definition is too general. Colin Michael, Arch Angel, and Peter (the 10/10) are Heretics.

Um, what?

Heretic
A heretic is a N.T. human evil character who publicly denied or misrepresented some teachings of the apostles and established doctrines of the Church, while still holding some teachings or doctrines to be true. Their object is to disturb the life of the church and those within it, shaking their confidence and spoiling the work of Christ. The gospels were written in great measure as a means to answer the words and teachings of the heretics in the early N.T. church.

Converted, Peter would be a Heretic because he denied Christ.
Arch Angel (if a character and converted) would be a Heretic because he is masianic and has radically diferent beleifs from most church denominations.
Colin Michael (if a character) because he likes to disrupt the life of the church.

Daniel TS RED · « **Reply #17 on:** August 14, 2010, 09:50:36 PM »

I think the main part is this, "Their object is to disturb the life of the church and those within it, shaking their confidence and spoiling the work of Christ." There is a huge difference between your M.O. being that ^^^^ and differences between denominations.

Daniel

Smokey · « **Reply #18 on:** August 14, 2010, 09:59:08 PM »

Quote from: Daniel TS RED on August 14, 2010, 09:50:36 PM

I think the main part is this, "Their object is to disturb the life of the church and those within it, shaking their confidence and spoiling the work of Christ." There is a huge difference between your M.O. being that ^^^^ and differences between denominations.

Daniel

Colin Michael is still a Heretic then.
Also, if that is the main definition Annias and Saphirah wouldn't be Heretics.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #19 on:** August 14, 2010, 10:01:17 PM »

Quote from: Smokey on August 14, 2010, 09:59:08 PM

Quote from: Daniel TS RED on August 14, 2010, 09:50:36 PM
I think the main part is this, "Their object is to disturb the life of the church and those within it, shaking their confidence and spoiling the work of Christ." There is a huge difference between your M.O. being that ^^^^ and differences between denominations.

Daniel

Colin Michael is still a Heretic then.
Also, if that is the main definition Annias and Saphirah wouldn't be Heretics.

According to a recent board discussion, they are not heretics, so that's fine.

JDS · « **Reply #20 on:** August 15, 2010, 07:38:31 AM »

I think the following crimson ECs could be looked at as heretics. Some have no SAs, so they can at least pad the numbers for now.

Definitely a heretic:

Diotrephes - disrespected apostolic authority, tried to expel individuals from the congregation who supported Apostles

Possibly a heretic:

Demas - originally in the ministry as a companion of Paul, later abandon him

Questionable:

Ananias & Sapphira - did not adhere to the community property doctrine of the Church? Probably more just lying than committing heresy, but I'm always for expanding definitions to provide more deck building options.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #21 on:** August 15, 2010, 10:41:03 AM »

Ananias and Sapphira almost certainly won't be classified as heretics under the current definition. Demas and the other guys who deserted Paul (Phygellus and Hermogenes) more than likely don't have enough evidence to classify them as heretics, because even though they presumably left the faith, it doesn't necessarily mean they taught/practiced a heretical Christianity. Diotrephes seems to have the strongest case, but that has yet to be decided.

News:

Author Topic: Heretics? (Read 2853 times)