Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Who can go into Fishing Boat. It says "Holds 12 Good Disciples).  If Judas is converted he can go in but in 3 gospels, it calls Joseph of Aramethea a disciple of Christ.  The rule book says that if the Bible and the game contradict, then the Bible is the Authority. What say ye to this.  Anyone that the Bible calls a Disciple of Christ would go in. But i would say it has to call them Disciple.

The rule book says that if the Bible and the game contradict, then the Bible is the Authority. What say ye to this.  Anyone that the Bible calls a Disciple of Christ would go in. But i would say it has to call them Disciple.

Anyone who follows Christ is his disciple.  And many were called his disciple in the bible, including masses of unnamed people.  However, only a specific number were called by Christ to be part of The Twelve, and that is what Redemption uses.

Disciples
The Disciples are the group of 12 men that Jesus called as his followers. Several Redemption® cards contain special abilities that refer to cards that refer to a Disciple or “one of Jesus’ 12 disciples.” The following cards refer to cards that refer to a disciple:
A New Commandment, Bartholomew (Di), Fishing Boat (Di), Hospitality of Martha (Wo), Ordained as a Disciple (P), and Sent Two by Two (Di)
This includes the following disciple cards:
Andrew (Ap), Andrew (I), Bartholomew (Di), Bartholomew (Nathaniel) (Ap), James Son of Alphaeus (Ap), James, Son of Alphaeus (Di), James, Son of Zebedee (Ap), James, son of Zebedee (H), James (I), John (H), John (P), John (Pr), John (I), Judas Iscariot (BL), Judas Iscariot (BU), Judas Iscariot (L), Judas Iscariot (Pi), Judas Iscariot (UL), Matthew (Levi) (Ap), Matthew (Di), Peter (Ap), Peter (I), Philip (Ap), Philip (Di), Simon the Zealot (Ap), Simon the Zealot (Di), Thaddaeus (Ap), Thaddeus (Di), Thomas (Ap), and Thomas (Di)

That definition will not change, and it is clearly defined.  On your point about the bible countering game rules, I cannot find that anywhere.  Please post where you are finding that.

Otherwise, interpretations vary, and Redemption uses specific definitions.  For example, David is clearly called a King of Judah in the Bible.  However, Redemption uses a very specific definition of the Kingdom of Judah as starting with the split and King Rehoboam, so that anyone before him would be King of Unified Israel instead.

In the original rulebook (circa 1995, i have it) Rob Anderson' mission statement says, "If you find that a Redemption card and the Bible are in conflict, the Bible is always correct." So, if the Bible calls him a Disciple, and the boat doesn't specify, I have a problem.

And if the Bible does not override the game, I have a bigger problem.

the game is not defining systematic theology it is a game.  Don't get to caught up here.  lol I guess your not the only one though see any of threads about Simeon and Isaiah being musicians lol.

 

And if the Bible does not override the game, I have a bigger problem.

The bible does override the game rules when the two are in conflict. However, in this situation the two are compatible, I'm not sure how to explain it more eloquently than Redoubtet already has, so I'll just give him a big

Yes but I also did my research. The original 12 are the apostles but they are also disciples. We are all called to make disciples. Maybe fishing boats wording is off. It doesn't even specify good disciples. In that case, judas need not convert.

Actually Apostle is also a more general term than just the 12. There isn't a single word that can encompass only the 12 but no one else.

To give you a complete list
The Twelve during Jesus's Ministry (Matthew 10:2)
Matthias (Acts 1:245)
Paul and Barnabas (Acts 14:14)
James (as in the brother of Jesus) (Galatians 1:19)
Epaphroditus (Philippians 2:25)
Jesus (Hebrews 3:1)

Note: I'm using the Greek words "apostolē" and "apostolos", so you may not find the word "Apostle" in your favorite translation.