Author Topic: Different Brigades (Read 5474 times)

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #25 on:** July 06, 2010, 07:17:05 PM »

I don't understand that logic. Now, 1 Saul/Paul as Saul......

juhnkect · « **Reply #26 on:** July 06, 2010, 07:28:42 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on July 06, 2010, 02:10:24 PM

The thread that this was discussed in before went through all this, and the conclusion of Bryon, Tim, Schaef, Myself, and some other REPs was that Zeal can target a brown character and a gold/brown character. Prof A has also now joined in to state that he also agrees that Zeal can target a black character and a grey/black character. That is 5 elders in agreement on this. There is no good reason to still be talking about this.

Sorry to bring it up again! I guess I broke Forum ediquette when I posted my question before looking to see if it was already asked! Thanks for the answers.. that's what I thought!

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #27 on:** July 06, 2010, 09:43:43 PM »

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on July 06, 2010, 07:15:43 PM

So 1 Paul * 1 Holy Grail = 16 Characters??

You obviously know nothing about basic mathematical equations.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #28 on:** July 06, 2010, 09:49:23 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on July 06, 2010, 02:10:24 PM

The thread that this was discussed in before went through all this, and the conclusion of Bryon, Tim, Schaef, Myself, and some other REPs was that Zeal can target a brown character and a gold/brown character. Prof A has also now joined in to state that he also agrees that Zeal can target a black character and a grey/black character. That is 5 elders in agreement on this. There is no good reason to still be talking about this.

Your right. We should totally just completely agree with any ruling that comes along, as long as 5 people hold hands and sing kumbaya in agreement with it.

Let's get serious. If you think a ruling is wrong, you should argue it until you are either convinced other by the rules or you convince the opposition to agree with you. In this case, while I still don't agree with the ruling, I'm going to go away because I understand the logic of it, there is no audience for my disagreement, and this isn't a super large ruling (yet).

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #29 on:** July 07, 2010, 11:26:16 AM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on July 06, 2010, 09:49:23 PM

Your right. We should totally just completely agree with any ruling that comes along, as long as 5 people hold hands and sing kumbaya in agreement with it.

That's the reason the elders system was put in place to begin with. You get a large majority of the official elders to agree on a rule, and it is then official unless Rob decides otherwise.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #30 on:** July 07, 2010, 11:37:31 AM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on July 06, 2010, 09:49:23 PM

Quote from: Prof Underwood on July 06, 2010, 02:10:24 PM
The thread that this was discussed in before went through all this, and the conclusion of Bryon, Tim, Schaef, Myself, and some other REPs was that Zeal can target a brown character and a gold/brown character. Prof A has also now joined in to state that he also agrees that Zeal can target a black character and a grey/black character. That is 5 elders in agreement on this. There is no good reason to still be talking about this.

Your right. We should totally just completely agree with any ruling that comes along, as long as 5 people hold hands and sing kumbaya in agreement with it.

I would agree, personally I think the elder ruling system is dumb. I don't see how it accomplishes anything more than the older system of knowing who the rule savants were and listening to them. All we are doing now is publicaly regonizing the good ruling people, which isn't nesseccesarily wrong but it can cause resentment between the Elders and the Lesser board members. I don't think it is an accurate portrayal of the Redemption community that is all.

Master KChief · « **Reply #31 on:** July 07, 2010, 12:07:43 PM »

i personally like the elder system because of the fact that if one gets something wrong, we can blame it on them.

otherwise yes, it is pretty redundant and dumb.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #32 on:** July 07, 2010, 12:32:31 PM »

What's dumb is that before the elders were established, we would have 20-page flame wars on rulings - accomplishing nothing - because no one could decide whose argument made more sense and come to a consensus. Now we have a way - maybe not the best way, but a way - for people looking for rulings to get a quick, definite, and uniform answer. It may not be an answer you agree with, or even an answer the majority of players agrees with, but at least it is an answer, and it is possibly even the same answer that would have resulted from the 20-page flame war. Is this not an improvement? Why are people still complaining about this?

Master KChief · « **Reply #33 on:** July 07, 2010, 12:35:38 PM »

because complaining is what the kool kids do. see what i did there? i used 'k' instead of 'c'. thats kool.

Michael_of_the_Star · « **Reply #34 on:** July 07, 2010, 01:23:33 PM »

I think having the Elder's system is wonderful, because any confusing ruling or confusing ability can be clarify by the Elders and make it a new ruling. The reason they are here to make the game easier and fun, although people love to complaint, but it is really tough to think of a ruling for people to agree on. It is best to have the Elders clarify the rules and make new ones to make the game much fair to others. People complaints because they don't like a certain rules of the game, but that is the beauty of the games and this is why God make us human. It is not because we cool or not, it is just how we human act to something we don't like.

ML.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #35 on:** July 07, 2010, 01:38:14 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on July 07, 2010, 12:35:38 PM

because complaining is what the kool kids do. see what i did there? i used 'k' instead of 'c'. thats kool.

If you were truly kool, you would have said you were komplaining.

Korunks · « **Reply #36 on:** July 07, 2010, 02:25:36 PM »

As a tournament host, I really really( and I mean really!) appreciate the elders ruling system. Its all well and good to have a 20 page flame war that in the end doesn't decide anything, if you don't have to make decisions that can (and probably will) affect someone's tournamnet chances. I believe in being as accurate as possible and the "old" system that some are pining for, was inefficient, caused (imho) more bruised egos and resentment than the elders, and they never ended, I mean ever, have you seen some of those threads? 20+ pages for some of them and no consensus! By all means lets bring that back, haven't had enough drama on the ruling forums lately,

. I can understnad if a ruling doesn't go your way, and I can feel for that, really I can. But what's worse, founding out in like a week or two that your combo doesn't work, or using it for the year and getting combo smacked at Nat's or regionals?

COUNTER_SNIPER · « **Reply #37 on:** July 07, 2010, 02:38:56 PM »

Well, when you don't have the Elder Ruling system, you get the American Political System: Two, sometimes 3, sides, who constantly see things differently, and a ruling only gets made based on who has the majority AT THAT TIME. Only to be brought into question once more when the opposing viewpoint gains a majority and decides that the ruling should be reversed. Personally, I think that 5 people (Including the Original Creator of the game), deciding on a ruling based on 1. The Biblical/Historical Backing of the ability, and 2. The original intentions of how the card(s) were to be used, is a quite fair way to run things. It's all the more better because in some cases, the Elders don't necessarily play as competitively as we do, so their judgments aren't tainted with the bias of wanting our card combos to work.

-C_S

Michael_of_the_Star · « **Reply #38 on:** July 07, 2010, 03:26:58 PM »

Quote from: COUNTER_SNIPER on July 07, 2010, 02:38:56 PM

Well, when you don't have the Elder Ruling system, you get the American Political System: Two, sometimes 3, sides, who constantly see things differently, and a ruling only gets made based on who has the majority AT THAT TIME. Only to be brought into question once more when the opposing viewpoint gains a majority and decides that the ruling should be reversed. Personally, I think that 5 people (Including the Original Creator of the game), deciding on a ruling based on 1. The Biblical/Historical Backing of the ability, and 2. The original intentions of how the card(s) were to be used, is a quite fair way to run things. It's all the more better because in some cases, the Elders don't necessarily play as competitively as we do, so their judgments aren't tainted with the bias of wanting our card combos to work.

-C_S

I agree of what he said, because as you see in many of people's favorite game: Yugioh, Pokemon, Magic, and more other games, doesn't have a structure like Redemption, Redemption is a unique game that make according to the Bible and there are six people constantly trying to make this game better and easier to understand. They are here to make sure no cards are too overpower and the ability actually make sense, if you compare this game and Yugioh, I think this game is much more education and fair, because Redemption is a game where all people come up with new ideas and share them through out the game, this is true strategy to play a card game. Thank you.

ML.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #39 on:** July 07, 2010, 04:17:44 PM »

Quote from: TheHobbit13 on July 07, 2010, 11:37:31 AM

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on July 06, 2010, 09:49:23 PM
Quote from: Prof Underwood on July 06, 2010, 02:10:24 PM
The thread that this was discussed in before went through all this, and the conclusion of Bryon, Tim, Schaef, Myself, and some other REPs was that Zeal can target a brown character and a gold/brown character. Prof A has also now joined in to state that he also agrees that Zeal can target a black character and a grey/black character. That is 5 elders in agreement on this. There is no good reason to still be talking about this.

Your right. We should totally just completely agree with any ruling that comes along, as long as 5 people hold hands and sing kumbaya in agreement with it.

I would agree, personally I think the elder ruling system is dumb. I don't see how it accomplishes anything more than the older system of knowing who the rule savants were and listening to them. All we are doing now is publicaly regonizing the good ruling people, which isn't nesseccesarily wrong but it can cause resentment between the Elders and the Lesser board members. I don't think it is an accurate portrayal of the Redemption community that is all.

Don't get me wrong, the Elder system is needed in some cases for more controversial rulings. Someone has to have authority. But I find the idea that I should listen to the Elders because they are Elders doesn't jive. I should listen to the Elders because they are right, and if they are not right, I should try to correct the view.

Michael_of_the_Star · « **Reply #40 on:** July 07, 2010, 04:33:53 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on July 07, 2010, 04:17:44 PM

Don't get me wrong, the Elder system is needed in some cases for more controversial rulings. Someone has to have authority. But I find the idea that I should listen to the Elders because they are Elders doesn't jive. I should listen to the Elders because they are right, and if they are not right, I should try to correct the view.

In this case, you are just going against the Elders, as you may see already, so many people trying to explain to you the rules and we all think we are right, but because no one is in your defense, you cannot just let it be. I know all of us who hear something we don't like would disagree as well, we all agree the choice the Elders made is wise a correct, and plus I have played that rule for so many times, and it make sense to me.

When you use Zeal, you are picking the brigade, just like the ignores that we have with Genesis, Royalty.

I would like you to tell me a brigade you have been playing, so I can use that brigade to explain to you what we meant, because there are so many other cards do the similar thing not only Zeal. Thank you

ML.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #41 on:** July 07, 2010, 04:47:54 PM »

You can stop talking down to me.

I already said I understand the logic, don't agree with it, but am not fighting it because it really doesn't matter because Zeal is the only card it affects. I am laying the groundwork for the future. Someone's position is irrelevant to whether they are right or not. It just affects how much weight their word has. I could be more correct than an Elder, but because the Elder has a position, their word has more weight. I am just pointing out that the Elders are not there because their word is perfect - they are there to try and settle important disputes (and provide a more seen ruling prescense). They can be wrong. Not arguing their points is a disservice to the game if you feel they are wrong.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #42 on:** July 07, 2010, 04:50:26 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on July 07, 2010, 04:17:44 PM

I should listen to the Elders because they are right, and if they are not right, I should try to correct the view.

The beautiful thing about the Elder system is that if an elder is wrong, another elder will correct his view. If none does, then that means all Elders are in agreement, in which case a non-Elder arguing with an Elder would just be stubbornness.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #43 on:** July 07, 2010, 04:54:00 PM »

So, Lambo arguing the 2kh vs. Angel's Sword on Michael was pointless?

No, it wasn't. Your presenting the implied premise that the Elders are perfect. They aren't, and I am sure they are first to agree to that. Obviously at some point, continuing arguing is pointless (and that can be judged based on individual threads), but there is absolutely nothing wrong or harmful or bad about havign 10 pages of soundly argued points that flesh out the reasoning on both sides and present a more complete solution.

Michael_of_the_Star · « **Reply #44 on:** July 07, 2010, 04:56:08 PM »

To tell the truth, I don't want to be mean with anyone, so I would not call anyone stubborn.

Anyway, I was just telling you Alex, Zeal of the Lord is the only card with this ruling. Garden Tomb, Ignore from Genesis, and more has the similar ruling, although is not killing but it is the exactly same concept, that is why I ask for your deck color, so I can explain to you more. Thank you.

ML.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #45 on:** July 07, 2010, 04:59:37 PM »

The Garden Tomb vs. multicolor EC ruling really isn't the same concept though. In that case, if one of an EC's brigades is ignored, the EC is ignored. In this case, you can choose to target either color of an EC.

And, for like, the 4th time, I understand the ruling. I simply don't agree with it. You don't need to explain it to me.

Master KChief · « **Reply #46 on:** July 07, 2010, 05:24:04 PM »

Quote

I agree of what he said, because as you see in many of people's favorite game: Yugioh, Pokemon, Magic, and more other games, doesn't have a structure like Redemption, Redemption is a unique game that make according to the Bible and there are six people constantly trying to make this game better and easier to understand. They are here to make sure no cards are too overpower and the ability actually make sense, if you compare this game and Yugioh, I think this game is much more education and fair, because Redemption is a game where all people come up with new ideas and share them through out the game, this is true strategy to play a card game. Thank you.

lolwut? redemption is better, easier to understand, and more fair than yugioh/pokemon/mtg because it is severely understaffed? riiiiiight.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #47 on:** July 07, 2010, 11:18:31 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on July 07, 2010, 04:54:00 PM

Your presenting the implied premise that the Elders are perfect.

What? Me? When did I do that?

Elders are not perfect, but they are the best we have in the way of rulemaking. They are much more experienced than the average Redemption player, including you and I. Now, if we had just one single tyrranical overlord of ruling questions, I would be much more concerned, but we have 12 Elders who are able to correct each other if there is a disagreement. I think this system results in the best possible rulings.

Now, if you want to bring up an argument with new information and a new point of view, or to understand the reasoning for the conclusion, that's fine, but restarting an argument just because you did not agree with the consensus is a total waste of everyone's time. I have no idea what the case was for Lambo's thread that you are talking about, but he doesn't seem to me like someone who would resurrect an argument for no reason.

But bottom line, the Elders are the new system, and they work, and they are staying as long as Rob says they should, so we have little to gain from arguing about this anymore. Hugz?

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #48 on:** July 07, 2010, 11:23:06 PM »

Twelve elders, twelve disciples. Coincidence? I think not!

Taking bets on who is Judas.... probably the one that says no to my combo

Michael_of_the_Star · « **Reply #49 on:** July 07, 2010, 11:55:49 PM »

LOL, that is a really interesting point.

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Author Topic: Different Brigades (Read 5474 times)

Rawrlolsauce!

Lamborghini_diablo

TheHobbit13

Lamborghini_diablo

Rawrlolsauce!