Cactus Game Design Message Boards

No.  The decision was made on site access rules, and thus a gold site is "good" gold (but a neutral card)

To clarify, the site is NOT good gold, but neutral gold. However, because of how site access rules are defined (the hero must have matching brigade to the site) then good gold and neutral gold are matching brigades for purposes of Herod's Temple/Antiochus, etc. However, nothing in the rules says that evil gold and good or neutral gold are matching, so there's no reason I could imagine that you could discard Egypt to save your Herod.

I assume (wa) battle prayer was ruled not to work at some point.

not that I know of, but it is about time it should.  Battle prayer (wa) is the only thing holding together Besieging the City decks

Battle Prayer (Wa) just says "gold" and since there are two brigades that fit under that description, it's allowed to search for either. If it specified "good" gold (like the Kings version), then that would be a different story, but it does not. There is nothing about matching brigade or that good gold and evil gold are the same brigade. I assume this is why discarding a site to save a Herod with HT doesn't work.

But the brigade color on a site is inherently "good," due to the site access rules.

Quote from: SomeKittens on March 07, 2011, 03:38:35 PM

No.  The decision was made on site access rules, and thus a gold site is "good" gold (but a neutral card)

To clarify, the site is NOT good gold, but neutral gold. However, because of how site access rules are defined (the hero must have matching brigade to the site) then good gold and neutral gold are matching brigades for purposes of Herod's Temple/Antiochus, etc. However, nothing in the rules says that evil gold and good or neutral gold are matching, so there's no reason I could imagine that you could discard Egypt to save your Herod.

But the brigade color on a site is inherently "good," due to the site access rules.

Quote from: Professoralstad on March 07, 2011, 04:12:46 PM

Quote from: SomeKittens on March 07, 2011, 03:38:35 PM

No.  The decision was made on site access rules, and thus a gold site is "good" gold (but a neutral card)

To clarify, the site is NOT good gold, but neutral gold. However, because of how site access rules are defined (the hero must have matching brigade to the site) then good gold and neutral gold are matching brigades for purposes of Herod's Temple/Antiochus, etc. However, nothing in the rules says that evil gold and good or neutral gold are matching, so there's no reason I could imagine that you could discard Egypt to save your Herod.

I don't understand how you say site brigade is good, then quote an Elder who says it isn't.

That's why I keep putting the quotes around "good."  Egypt isn't evil gold, it isn't good gold, but it can be targeted as a good gold card based on how site access works.

Thanks for clarifying that point.

I gotta say that this seems logically ridiculous. 

Site have neutral brigades and heros have good brigades which are different brigades but they are matching brigades because they are the same color.  Usually matching means it is the same but not in this case.  Evil brigades however don't match good or neutral brigades even if they are the same color.  So we know the good card matches because it is good but the site brigade isn't good. 

I think it would be far simpler and more logical to simply say that sites are neutral cards that depict (have) good brigades on them.  The sites have always been just the good brigades; there are no black, brown, etc, sites.

Someone countered that brigade colors were not inherently good or evil.  They said how could you know that the gold site was good and not evil gold brigade; so it was neither it was just gold color.  They were saying that someday we could have a good black and brown brigade and therefore have sites of those colors.  I just don't see this being the case.  (although I think it would be cool to have black sites)  I see that colors aren't inherently good or evil but I think brigades are.  We don't have any neutral brigades in the game other than the supposed site brigades.

Reading through this again, there is one point that was never brought up in the past.

Sites are neutral cards.

The OP incorrectly quoted Ant IV's ability, stating that it said "Good card of matching brigade." The card actually says: "...Opponent may discard a card of matching brigade from hand or territory instead..."

Therefore, I'd say discarding a site for Ant IV is fine. If another ability were to specify a good card of matching brigade, then I would say no.

...They were saying that someday we could have a good black and brown brigade and therefore have sites of those colors.  I just don't see this being the case.  (although I think it would be cool to have black sites)... 

You can do that with the Redemption Card Creator:


BTW, that card makes perfect sense in the context of the game for which it was created.

Is it still the case that a site can match a hero's brigade? Say for the purpose of exchanging or discarding a card of matching brigade.

Yes. The brigades are not tied to their alignment - a captured character is a neutral card of it's brigade (but usually isn't targetable by anything that cares), so all 16 can exist as neutral.