Author Topic: Destructive Sin/Image of Jealousy and Negate Loops  (Read 800 times)

Offline RedemptionAggie

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Destructive Sin/Image of Jealousy and Negate Loops
« on: April 20, 2016, 05:27:44 AM »
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Destructive Sin:
Place on a Hero. While this card remains, negate special abilities on that Hero and its owner's good Fortresses and Covenants.

Image of Jealousy:
Place on a Hero or good Fortress. While this card remains, negate the special ability on that card.

If either of these are placed on a BTN hero, what happens if the placed card is discarded during a battle involving that hero?  As an ongoing ability, the negate all should activate, creating a loop.

Offline Redoubter

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Re: Destructive Sin/Image of Jealousy and Negate Loops
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2016, 07:12:34 AM »
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One thing that we have had for this sort of thing is that cards cannot cascade-negate themselves, otherwise you can indeed have loops.  So, the BTN part of the character stays active.

In this case, I can give you a better reason.  Since they say "while remains," they turn off when they leave play.  As an ongoing ability, the BTN triggers once it is no longer negated.  It negates the enhancement that removed the placed card, which now returns.  Since it was not active, the placed card now tries to activate...but it cannot, because it is prevented.  It is not placing itself again, but it is trying to negate, and that has been prevented by the already-active BTN ability.

Note that this works the same even if you only negated the enhancement rather than discarding it.

Offline Gabe

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Re: Destructive Sin/Image of Jealousy and Negate Loops
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2016, 08:07:29 AM »
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Does the entire BTN ability activate when the placed card is discarded? Or is it only the ongoing "prevent" portion that activates? I seem to recall that a prevented instant ability doesn't reactivate. If it's only the ongoing prevent portion activating I don't think it will cause a loop.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2016, 01:00:40 PM by Gabe »
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Offline RedemptionAggie

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Re: Destructive Sin/Image of Jealousy and Negate Loops
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2016, 03:03:41 PM »
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If it's only the prevent portion that activates, that seems to shut down most loops.

I was aware of the "cannot cascade-negate themselves", but wasn't sure if it applied to enhancements as well as characters.  I didn't see that in the REG, so it might need to be added.

Offline Redoubter

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Re: Destructive Sin/Image of Jealousy and Negate Loops
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2016, 05:49:06 PM »
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Does the entire BTN ability activate when the placed card is discarded? Or is it only the ongoing "prevent" portion that activates? I seem to recall that a prevented instant ability doesn't reactivate. If it's only the ongoing prevent portion activating I don't think it will cause a loop.

The ongoing prevent of the placed card would still be prevented in this case, but you are indeed correct on that point as well, thanks for clarifying.

 


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