Cactus Game Design Message Boards

1. If conflicting abilities are active, whichever was active first takes precedence. In this case, since the fortress was likely in play before Wandering Spirit, discarded demons would go to Tartaros.

2. I honestly have no idea about this one.

Does Tartaros include demons discarded from hand, or is it similar to the newer Protection of Jerusalem in that the demon must have been in play or set-aside? 

Additionally, is Tartaros like the new PoJ in that the holder of Tartaros must be the one causing the discard (and not discarded by numbers or an opponent's SA)?

Abilities default to play, so both Tartaros and Wandering Spirit can only instead demons discarded from play (as far as I know).

Yes. Tartors specified Holder (old terminology) which means the person that controls the card. Only demons you, yourself, discard go there.

I am not so sure that the card that was in play first takes precedence. I have seen it played where the player gets to choose which ability  they want to use since they were activated simultaneously. Actually not with wandering spirit but when Gates of Hell discards a demon.

I am not so sure that the card that was in play first takes precedence. I have seen it played where the player gets to choose which ability  they want to use since they were activated simultaneously. Actually not with wandering spirit but when Gates of Hell discards a demon.

If the abilities activate simultaneously (somehow), then sure I'd rule the owner would get to pick. But in the Tartaros/WS example, Tartaros was already in play and active so it takes precedence.

A couple of responses to the questions that have come up in this thread:

1. Tartaros activates first unless it entered play after WS entered battle (only way I can think of that this would happen is a side-battle...).  It is well-established in recent threads on the topic that precedence goes to the thing activated longest, and my championing for a hierarchy has not been fruitful

Essentially, since Tartaros insteads the discard first, WS has no discard to instead, and he ends up in Tartaros.

2. From the literal reading of the card, at any time that it holds no EC, you must place one there face-down.  The rule has been well-established that fortresses are constantly reactivating, and do not activate once per turn/phase.  Therefore, if it is ever empty (regardless of when), you must occupy it.  This includes even after the EC there is used to block.

Note also that when this is extended to address the rules about not having a card type in hand when an ability requires it, you must reveal your hand if you cannot place an EC in order to prove it.

I have never seen it ruled this way, but that is the correct ruling by the wording on the card and the rules around the ability, barring an errata...hrm...

3. Tartaros may instead the discard from hand, because instead does not default to play (see Chamber of Angels).  However, that depends on the definition of "that holder...discards," and whether that implies abilities controlled by the holder or the act of discarding.  It certainly insteads discards caused by your own SA, but whether it works when you discard from hand during Discard Phase?  I don't see an answer on a quick search of the boards.

But can it be used to band an EC into battle after the rescuer has been blocked and has removed the EC from battle (so that it is now unblocked again), or does "unblocked" mean just before the first time the rescuer is blocked?

The Darkness: Place an Evil Character from hand face down here. If an opponent begins a rescue attempt and chooses a blocker (or is unblocked), you may reveal this evil character. Blocking player may add it to the battle. Otherwise return it face down.

It can only be done on the initial block, not afterwards.

FWIW, there was a long discussion between Gabe, myself, and the collected judges at Nationals last year about Tartaros vs. Wandering Spirit. It was decided that TartarSauce takes precedence for precisely the reason browarod gives in the second post of this thread.