Cactus Game Design Message Boards

I'd say yes:

Defeat                           

Defeat is caused when a character’s toughness is less than or equal to an opposing character’s strength. A defeat also occurs when a character is stopped from achieving his goal in battle. A Hero(es) is defeated when the Hero(es) in battle are discarded, repelled or otherwise fails to make a successful rescue such as in a stalemate. The Evil Character(s) is defeated when the Evil Character(s) in battle are discarded, ignored or otherwise fails to stop the Hero from making a successful rescue such as in a mutual destruction by numbers.

Thanks. I would a assume defeat is the same as a loss correct? Elders to you have anything to say on this matter?

I would say that loss != defeat.  Gomer was defeated, but you have not lost the battle.

But did she lose?

To my knowledge, losing is not character driven, but battle driven.  Given that the battle is still occurring, there has been no loss.

Hey now, be careful how you're tossing around the definition of "defeat".  These type of threads always turn into philosophical discussions.  Gomer is NOT defeated.  You don't find out until battle resolution.  Otherwise, PW is ready to start grabbing heroes' BVDs again.

Potiphar's Wife (Wo)
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Gold • Ability: 2 / 2 • Class: None • Special Ability: When character defeats a male Hero in the Field of Battle, the Hero is taken prisoner and placed in your opponent's Land of Bondage and treated as a Lost Soul. • Play As: If male Heroes are defeated by a win or stalemate by Potiphar's wife, capture and place them in opponent's land of bondage instead. • Identifiers: OT Female Human, Egypt • Verse: Genesis 39:9

Quote from: STAMP on December 20, 2011, 10:45:48 AM

Hey now, be careful how you're tossing around the definition of "defeat".

Quote

Defeat                           
...The Evil Character(s) is defeated when the Evil Character(s) in battle are discarded...

Am I missing something here?  Are you saying that none of the ECs are defeated until the battle is over and it is determined that all of the ECs were defeated?

Because otherwise, I don't see any reason why discarding one of them would not count as defeating that one.

The reason being we have had 183,237 threads about "Potiphar's Wife/Failed Objective".  And in every single one of them, the Elders have never really come to any consensus.

Whatever.  I've got bigger fish to fry. 

What is the definition of Defeated?

REG definition:

Defeat                           

Defeat is caused when a character’s toughness is less than or equal to an opposing character’s strength. A defeat also occurs when a character is stopped from achieving his goal in battle. A Hero(es) is defeated when the Hero(es) in battle are discarded, repelled or otherwise fails to make a successful rescue such as in a stalemate. The Evil Character(s) is defeated when the Evil Character(s) in battle are discarded, ignored or otherwise fails to stop the Hero from making a successful rescue such as in a mutual destruction by numbers.

Yep

That quote from the REG is very equivocal. My understanding is that victory and defeat are determined during battle resolution, and the quote backs that up. However, the side that says defeat can be determined mid-battle can use the same quote to support their position because it mentions being discarded, ignored, etc.

My reading of it is that it's determined in the resolution, and the verbage about "discarded, etc." is meant to be exemplary of why a character would come do defeat during the resolution, not conditions for defeat in themselves. In either case, the entry needs to be simplified (don't use examples ever, it only causes confusion) and clarified (an entry that can be taken in two opposite ways with equal validity is not worded correctly).

My understanding is if a Character is discarded, they are defeated I'm not sure on kickbacks/Protecting LS's because that is crazy w/ PW.

Quote from: Minister Polarius on December 22, 2011, 09:47:19 PM

My understanding is that victory and defeat are determined during battle resolution

That's why I asked this question:

Quote from: Prof Underwood on December 20, 2011, 03:46:41 PM

Are you saying that none of the ECs are defeated until the battle is over and it is determined that all of the ECs were defeated?

Schaef usually shows up and clarifies this, and I can never seem to remember which words happen immediately, and which ones happen at battle resolution.  So I'd wait until another Elder chimes in on this one.  However, if Pol is correct about it happening at battle resolution, then Gomer would NOT be considered "defeated" until the battle was over, and would depend on how things turned out.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner. 

BTW, I with Schaef.

That quote from the REG is very equivocal. My understanding is that victory and defeat are determined during battle resolution, and the quote backs that up. However, the side that says defeat can be determined mid-battle can use the same quote to support their position because it mentions being discarded, ignored, etc.

My reading of it is that it's determined in the resolution, and the verbage about "discarded, etc." is meant to be exemplary of why a character would come do defeat during the resolution, not conditions for defeat in themselves. In either case, the entry needs to be simplified (don't use examples ever, it only causes confusion) and clarified (an entry that can be taken in two opposite ways with equal validity is not worded correctly).

Is there one only one "win" or does each evil character in battle win in resolution. For example would you be able to release multiple demons from tartaros with one block?

Tartaros
 "Release one demon to holders territory from tartaros when one of holders demon wins in battle"