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Author Topic: Decrease abilities...  (Read 1572 times)

Offline megamanlan

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Decrease abilities...
« on: June 19, 2012, 12:41:50 AM »
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I'm not sure if this is a dumb question or not... But if I use a general decrease (like the Fourth Seal) does it decrease a Character that was Searched after I played the decrease this phase?
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Offline adotson85

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Re: Decrease abilities...
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2012, 01:13:50 AM »
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No, it is an instantaneous decrease. Only characters in play when The Fourth Seal is played would be decreased.
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Offline megamanlan

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Re: Decrease abilities...
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2012, 11:42:45 AM »
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Well, In looking at decrease as a continuous effect, I'm not sure if that's correct or not though.
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Decrease abilities...
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2012, 12:36:17 AM »
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Quote from: megamanlan on June 19, 2012, 11:42:45 AM
Well, In looking at decrease as a continuous effect, I'm not sure if that's correct or not though.

You're right in that decrease is listed as ongoing, but good luck getting a clear answer on what that actually means anymore with the way decrease has been ruled ;)

It's actually a good question to ask, and I think we need to get some confirmation.  The wording is unfortunately not clear, what with decrease being defined in 'ongoing abilities'.
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Offline adotson85

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Re: Decrease abilities...
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2012, 01:22:54 AM »
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Increase/Decrease is listed under ongoing abilities, but according to the below definition it can be either ongoing or instant. The Fourth Seal does not designate the decrease with a “*” or “x," so it seems by definition to be an instant ability.

From the REG:

Quote
How to Play

Increase or decrease abilities can increase strength and toughness, decrease strength and toughness, or change the strength and toughness to a new specified amount.
Increase or decrease abilities can by dynamically conditional, statically conditional, or unconditional.
Dynamically conditional increase or decrease abilities are ongoing.  Dynamic abilities are typically designated by a “*” or “x” on the card. All other increase or decrease abilities are instantaneous.  Increase or decrease abilities target the card(s) whose abilities are changed.
[quote/]

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Offline megamanlan

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Re: Decrease abilities...
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2012, 01:50:34 AM »
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That makes it more confusing, X is dynamic but there is no X that is an Increase/Decrease so that can't possibly apply. Not to mention that sounds worse then the Heal problem. Its too convoluted and needs to be updated to be simpler.
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Offline adotson85

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Re: Decrease abilities...
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2012, 01:59:28 AM »
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I completely agree that it is confusing. However, until an elder says otherwise, the REG is the only ruling authority we have to go bye.
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Offline megamanlan

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Re: Decrease abilities...
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2012, 02:29:36 AM »
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I'd say that REG is less help here then playing without knowing the rules.

I'm going to check if the Rulebook is a little more clearer on this issue...
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Decrease abilities...
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2012, 10:12:01 AM »
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Increase/Decrease can be instant or ongoing because of how different cards function. Plagued with Diseases as an Artifact is ongoing because it targets continually over multiple phases. Wounded is an instant ability because it decreases once.
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Offline megamanlan

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Re: Decrease abilities...
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2012, 11:40:48 AM »
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Wounded is a place card.
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Decrease abilities...
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2012, 02:52:43 PM »
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Hunger, then.
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Offline megamanlan

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Re: Decrease abilities...
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2012, 03:03:30 PM »
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I'd argue that a card that says 'all characters' should be defined as a continuous effect, that means all Characters in play (or put in play) during the battle phase will decrease because of Hunger (unless Protected) this also means that interrupts will interrupt a decrease too.
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Decrease abilities...
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2012, 03:15:45 PM »
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Quote from: megamanlan on June 20, 2012, 03:03:30 PM
I'd argue that a card that says 'all characters' should be defined as a continuous effect, that means all Characters in play (or put in play) during the battle phase will decrease because of Hunger (unless Protected)...

That is not an argument you will win. "All characters" is just designating targets at the time the card is played. If the ability is instant, then only the legal targets at that time are affected.

Quote from: megamanlan on June 20, 2012, 03:03:30 PM
... this also means that interrupts will interrupt a decrease too.

They will only interrupt decreases that are ongoing, causing removal, or instant decreases if they were the last enhancement played (for an ItB).
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Offline megamanlan

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Re: Decrease abilities...
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2012, 03:55:48 PM »
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One advantage would be making decrease all's more of a Counter to Search, and it makes them more consistent so decrease is less confusing.
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