Cactus Game Design Message Boards

OK so let me get this straight since i still dont understand and IM being called a jerk because of it.

I cant play anycards if opponent wants to play Mayhem after I draw?

Do I have to give my opponent some kind of special initiative to play Doms during my upkeep before i move on to the next phase?

Do I have to declare that im in the next phase?

That's... really actually pretty ridiculous. I've never been a fan of Mayhem to begin with, but rulings like that are enough for me to consider dropping the game.

Actually the calling of "Mayhem after draw" should be clarified to mean "mayhem after draw...unless you have doms you are playing" because the person drawing is responding to their own actions so I say that any dom they want to/or intended to play should be allowed to be played.


After all, if we are going to follow the "respondign to own action" precedent, we shouldn't set it aside just because someone wants to play a mayhem

Right, thus my first bullet point - Where I say I'll rule in your favor 98% of the time if you drop SoG/NJ post-draw.

I was talking about those that want to type in "mayhem after draw" BEFORE people draw on RTS.  in that case I say that, even though you typed, that, you have to give leeway to an opponent that wants to play a Dominant in response to their own draw

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on May 05, 2011, 03:53:11 PM

Right, thus my first bullet point - Where I say I'll rule in your favor 98% of the time if you drop SoG/NJ post-draw.

I was talking about those that want to type in "mayhem after draw" BEFORE people draw on RTS.  in that case I say that, even though you typed, that, you have to give leeway to an opponent that wants to play a Dominant in response to their own draw

I think there needs to be a rule on what actually can be played after someone has already said they are playing mayhem after draw. I'm all for allowing doms only myself, but whatever would be ruled in a f2f game should be the same as online. Online play and f2f games should be consistent. How would most judges rule this:

Player 1 is finishing his turn and before he ends turn he says, "Mayhem after your d3".
Player 1 ends turn.
Player 2 d3's, no LS's, but then plays his own mayhem that was included in the d3(does it have to be in the d3?)

I would let the second player play his Mayhem. It did what I wanted it to do without me having to play a card.

I agree that a precedent should be agreed upon and announced, so that people see it. If the ruling is going to be that only Doms can be played if an opponent plays Mayhem immediately after drawing, then there are mini-rulings that need to go into that. Can doms that were in the hand before the draw be used? What about doms that were drawn that turn?

It is impossible to play a dominant after I draw  before my opponents plays mayhem though, or even in a clear tie, because the card you want to play has to come from your deck to your hand and onto the table, meanwhile you have no time to process your draw. Your opponent only has to wait for the cards to hit your hand.

Your post also seems to contradict John's statement.
 

The answer to your first question is a semi-no -  Additionally, if you have reason to believe that your opponent has Mayhem, and you drop SoG/NJ right after your draw, I'll rule in your favor 98% of the time.

What about the other doms? It seems that the announcement of playing mayhem would increase your opponents chance of playing doms that they wouldn't play as fast vs no announcement.

If they give you the mayhem after d3, can you give them back the, ok, np, I'm going to play all the doms I can before that mayhem starts though. That way you minimize the impact of mayhem.

so if they dont announce that they are playing Mayhem after i draw and i draw 3, are you saying that I can immediately move into my prep phase and place cards down?

OK now Im confused because I was told that I have to wait and let my opponent play Doms during my upkeep even if I dont have any actions during my upkeep. (and i do agree with this btw)

This is what I think SHOULD be the ruling:

No cards can be played during the draw phase or the upkeep phase, right?  So, the dominants don't get to be played until the start of the preparation phase.  

How do we know that the preparation phase has begun?  When the active player takes a preparation phase action.  What is one of the actions that can happen at the start of the preparation phase?  A player can play dominants, place a card from hand into territory, put a lost soul in a site, activate an artifact, etc.  If no preparation phase actions have happened yet, then the preparation phase has not yet begun.  The ACTIVE player gets to decide when to start performing prep phase actions.  The other players DO NOT start a phase on MY turn.

It is similar to the battle phase, which doesn't begin until the active player puts a hero (or EC with Taunt) into the battle.  The other players can do nothing during the battle phase until the active player has begun the phase by placing a hero into battle.  You don't need to declare the battle phase begun before you put a hero into battle.  You just do it.  You "declare" the battle phase begun by performing the first battle phase action.

So, it seems to me that Mayhem shouldn't be allowed to be played until the prep phase has truly begun, which doesn't happen until a player has completed one prep phase action.  In that case, the active player could play one card (or the simultaneous SoG/NJ) before an opponent's Mayhem is dropped.

One benefit to this ruling is that FTM is slightly less devastating: you get to play your one best card before Mayhem ruins your game.

Another benefit to this ruling: as your first action, you could activate an artifact or play a fortress with a "protect your hand" ability - totally nerfing your opponent's Mayhem before he has a chance to play it.

I would support that ruling. However, what's stopping you from plopping a bunch of cards down?

Cards are played one at a time.  A slight pause should happen between each anyway, so that all players see what is happening.  If I ever see a player dropping more than one card at a time (besides the simultaneous SoG/NJ), I tell him to pick up his cards and play the game right.  

Of course, this doesn't mean that I can't race through every dominant in my hand in rapid-fire succession, trying to play all of them before your Mayhem.  That would be OK.

But characters, arts, sites, etc. can't be played that way.  One at a time.