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Author Topic: "And/Or" Bands  (Read 3787 times)

TheHobbit13

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Re: "And/Or" Bands
« Reply #25 on: June 17, 2015, 01:52:17 PM »
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So why does Mary the Mother of James have an and/or in her ability?
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: "And/Or" Bands
« Reply #26 on: June 17, 2015, 03:02:37 PM »
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Quote from: TheHobbit on June 17, 2015, 01:52:17 PM
So why does Mary the Mother of James have an and/or in her ability?

I agree with this line of thinking. I would say that there is one ability (band) with multiple targets.

A similar card is the Shame Lost Soul, which says "...may set aside a Hero from each territory." There was a time when it was ruled that meant "may set aside from this territory, may set-aside from that territory, and may set aside from the other territory." That ruling was overturned for the same reason. The set aside ability is one ability, with multiple targets.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 03:08:37 PM by Professoralstad »
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: "And/Or" Bands
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2015, 04:42:14 PM »
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The "and/or" in MMoJ is the way I would prefer to write it for clarity, but I still stand by the original ruling.  Choice through "may" is transitive through targeting, and this is a case where you have that choice.

Additionally, the reason I see this as different from the Shame ruling is that the Shame does not say "you may set-aside one from your territory and one from opponent's territory," it says it in one statement and does not separate them as targets, much like Pharisees and Sadducees say "all" and thus must target all.
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browarod

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Re: "And/Or" Bands
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2015, 05:10:25 PM »
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Quote from: Redoubter on June 17, 2015, 04:42:14 PM
Additionally, the reason I see this as different from the Shame ruling is that the Shame does not say "you may set-aside one from your territory and one from opponent's territory," it says it in one statement and does not separate them as targets, much like Pharisees and Sadducees say "all" and thus must target all.
I could see that if Sanhedrin said "May band to a pharisee, and to a sadducee, and to Scribe" but the actual effect, "May band to a Pharisee, Sadducee, and Scribe" is also one statement technically. So, I don't see where you're getting that it's multiple statements. It's worded very similarly to Shame. "You may" <keyword> [targeting group].
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TheHobbit13

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Re: "And/Or" Bands
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2015, 05:12:40 PM »
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Reach is transitive because its three abilities in one Sanhedrin has one type of ability. What's the logic or precedent behind this ruling, you've really only said its the rule because it is  ;)
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 05:24:43 PM by TheHobbit »
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: "And/Or" Bands
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2015, 05:58:24 PM »
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Quote from: TheHobbit on June 17, 2015, 05:12:40 PM
Reach is transitive because its three abilities in one Sanhedrin has one type of ability. What's the logic or precedent behind this ruling, you've really only said its the rule because it is  ;)

I really have given the logic for the ruling, please read my posts again.  Gabe also agreed with that ruling.  Since we have a disagreement among Elders, we'll have to discuss it and come to a consensus, but to say that I've only said "that's the way it is" is inaccurate.
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TheHobbit13

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Re: "And/Or" Bands
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2015, 06:17:16 PM »
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I have read  through it a few times that's why I asked the second time.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2015, 06:21:37 PM by TheHobbit »
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: "And/Or" Bands
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2015, 06:59:50 PM »
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Quote from: TheHobbit on June 17, 2015, 06:17:16 PM
I have read  through it a few times that's why I asked the second time.
Quote from: Redoubter on June 17, 2015, 04:42:14 PM
Choice through "may" is transitive through targeting, and this is a case where you have that choice.

Should have quoted that part initially for you then, sorry.  Basically, "may" before a list is transitive in Redemption, hence where it was being ruled that the "may" in the band applies to each of the targets.
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